Goat?

[mtnrunner260]

I think this is a nanny based on kink at top of horns and bases not being wider than the eye.
Does that seem correct?

 

[Robert N]

Very skinny horns…appears to lack the glands right behind the horns that the males have.

Even if that was a male (*hey, it’s the modern age), it’s not a shooter.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yes. You are correct. Even if it you’re mistaken and it’s a billy it is a young one. “If it’s cute, do not shoot.”

Contrast your pics of the goat in profile with this mature billy.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Top photo is a young billy. The scalloped face profile when viewed from the side indicates a young goat compared to the humped side profile of a mature billy.

The most experienced goat hunter I ever met imparted this bit of excellent advice to a friend of mine who had drawn a tag. “Look for a horse-faced billy.”

Anytime I question what sex or age of a goat I am looking at, I remember that phrase.

 

[Wild Bill]

I am by no means any kind of expert, but that is exactly what sticks out to me the way that Gerald puts it.
Clearly not the same angle, but you can see the prominent Roman nose on the mature billy, compared to almost a scoop on a nanny or young billy.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Very skinny horns…appears to lack the glands right behind the horns that the males have.

Even if that was a male (*hey, it’s the modern age), it’s not a shooter.

Do the Billy's have prominent glands year round or more so during the rut?

 

[mtnrunner260]

Yes. You are correct. Even if it you’re mistaken and it’s a billy it is a young one. “If it’s cute, do not shoot.”

Contrast your pics of the goat in profile with this mature billy.
View attachment 375875

Great photo and "don't shoot if cute" is a great way to think about it

 

[mtnrunner260]

Gerald and Wild Bill - thanks for the Horse face demonstration. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Do the Billy's have prominent glands year round or more so during the rut?

Glands swell during the rut. During summer months and early fall they’re likely to be hidden by the hair.

One note if you observe a Billy with enlarged glands
when you are hunting is that his horns may appear shorter than what they actually are because the gland obscure an inch or more of the bases.

Enlarged glands are usually a pretty good indicator of a mature Billy.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Here’s an example of a mature Billy that had enlarged glands by October 1 that was longer than I thought at first impression. He was a huge bodied goat with enlarged glands. I knew he was mature but my first impression was he had probably 9-91/2” horns. He turned out to have 10 5/8” horns. It’s nice when you get to watch a buddy walk up to a goat with significant ground growth instead of shrinkage!

Goats are like bears in that their proportions in relation to their body size can be difficult to judge.

The ear length on that goat above was @7”. On a 3 1/2” year old billy it’s about 5-51/2”.


It’s one reason I look for other indicators of age and maturity rather than horn length. In my opinion in MT if you focus on shooting a mature goat you will be happy with the horn length. Different areas will tend to produce a certain length of horn and few in MT will produce a net B&C goat.

This goat was only 6 1/2” years old but from an area with exceptional genetics and feed. I believe it netted right at all time B&C minimum.

 

[Gerald Martin]

This goat for comparison was 8 1/2” years old and 9 1/8” in length with worn tips. He came from an area that has only produced two 10” Billy’s in the past ten years but was a fine a specimen of a mountain goat as I could expect for that area. I was thrilled when I walked up to him as well.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Both stud billies!
If a got has big glands and a horse face the horns are likely good enough?
Thanks

 

[Gerald Martin]

Both stud billies!
If a got has big glands and a horse face the horns are likely good enough?
Thanks

That’s been my experience if a mature Billy is the goal. No idea what he’s going to score but he’ll be a mature representative of the species

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

After you look at enough goats, it is fairly obvious when you see a truly mature billy. The younger ones can be almost impossible to tell for sure, but a mature billy sticks out. Horseface, not cute, bigger front shoulders in my experience and thicker horns.

Not sure where you are located but make a run to Glacier to look at goats. You can look at them from super close and really get an eye for what a mature billy looks like when you see one. You get close enough in Glacier that you can look for the frank and beans from 20 feet away to be damn sure you are identifying correctly. It helped me out last year when I had a tag and if nothing else it helps bolster the confidence in what you are seeing.

 

[mtnrunner260]

After you look at enough goats, it is fairly obvious when you see a truly mature billy. The younger ones can be almost impossible to tell for sure, but a mature billy sticks out. Horseface, not cute, bigger front shoulders in my experience and thicker horns.

Not sure where you are located but make a run to Glacier to look at goats. You can look at them from super close and really get an eye for what a mature billy looks like when you see one. You get close enough in Glacier that you can look for the frank and beans from 20 feet away to be damn sure you are identifying correctly. It helped me out last year when I had a tag and if nothing else it helps bolster the confidence in what you are seeing.

On the front shoulders, is that billy compared to nanny or the fronts compared to rear on same goat?

Glacier isn't likely to happen this summer but I should have several opportunities to see goats.

Looking for a mature billy. Not cute, with a horse face, big glands and ample hair. I think the horns will be there if all the other boxes are checked.

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

On the front shoulders, is that billy compared to nanny or the fronts compared to rear on same goat?

Glacier isn't likely to happen this summer but I should have several opportunities to see goats.

Looking for a mature billy. Not cute, with a horse face, big glands and ample hair. I think the horns will be there if all the other boxes are checked.

Really it applies to both. The front shoulders on a mature billy look bigger than the rear on that same goat. They probably actually aren't by weight but the chest is just bigger. This also applies when compared to a nanny. The front shoulders are bigger on a mature billy when compared to a nanny.

 

[GearJunky]

Thank you for the great photo's, I am also one of the lucky one's that has a montana tag in my pocket this year. Really excited to learn all I can and enjoy this adventure. Headed out to my district this weekend for some scouting.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Thank you for the great photo's, I am also one of the lucky one's that has a montana tag in my pocket this year. Really excited to learn all I can and enjoy this adventure. Headed out to my district this weekend for some scouting.

Best of luck and share some pics when you get back!

 

[squirrel]

sexing goats is a process with many clues adding up to virtual certainty. Their coat vs the time of year is handy in early hunts. Watching them pee, is a really good one. The size and makeup or lack thereof of their social group. Are they dirty from wallowing? I would take any of these over just staring at those black daggers, but the horns are just another piece of the puzzle to be used. Now judging the length of the horns is WAY tougher. Counting growth rings is good if they have over 5-6 you are right where you want to be. Below is a classic mature nanny, a cute little billy, and last is a horse-faced first day shooter.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Agree with the assessment of the first two. The last one is a 4 1/2 year old 8 inch billy. He’s still two years away from getting a horse face.