$$gas$$

[JoseCuervo]

It is probably because those people are the ones who put both of them in office. Don't want to anger the constituants.

When running for political office, be careful with references to "those people"....

 

[Nemont]

Nemont...

I cant believe you would even ask that question...seriously, I cant.

I am serious. Please explain. What does the president have to do with the price of gasoline?

Nemont

 

[wyomingtim]

Those people = the looters, criminals.

 

[Nemont]

Another Bush classic "Nobody knew the levee's would burst"...HUH?????

The stupid bastard cut funding to the Army Corp of Engineers so they could complete them...but who would have ever guessed an unfinished levee would burst when a class 4 hurricane hit??? Beings how he doesnt read...he also must not have watched the several documentaries on T.V. that STATED NEW ORLEANS WAS TOAST if a large hurricane hit it. PBS and Discovery must be able to predict the future...but numbnuts acts surprised.

Is it really possible for a president to be that f*(&ing stupid???

Buzz,

As early as 1977 the COE proposed strengthening the levee's and construsting a system of locks and redundant levees that could contain a Category 5 hurricane and a storm surge higher then the one that breached the levees in place.

A group called save our wetlands got an injunction and ultimate won in court to stop the COE from completing the project because it would have meant draining nearly 10,000 acres of wetlands. I could provide the link if you want.


You would be bashing Bush if he had said, "look everyone knew this would happen but we were unable to do much because by law the COE was required to protect wetlands first". It would have been political suicide to say anything else. Blind hatred is going to make a bitter man.


Nemont

 

[JoseCuervo]

Nemont,

Does it matter how much was screwed up before the storm? The important thing now is how you move forward, and do you think flying to Calif to celebrate something that happend 60 years ago was more important than dealing with what will possibly turn out to be a more critical turning point in American History than 9/11? Was there a sequel to My Pet Goat???

 

[noharleyyet]

Thank you Nemont. Your lucidity & rationality is a welcome departure from some of this heckling from the cheap seats second guessing.

 

[BuzzH]

NHY,

Please explain how golfing and rambling about the Iraq war (i.e second guessing from the FRONT ROW) is helping????

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ithaca 37]

No,...this Hurricane is not anyone's fault and the Levee breaking isn't GW fault...no way....the US Army Corps Of Engineers....well....they could have made sure that there was a very well thought out disaster plan....as for the National Guard and FEMA not acting fast enough....I think it's overplayed...ther's never been a situation where we had to air lift by helicopters a hundred thousand people...it takes a couple of days for assets to get where they are needed....

I have issues with the press focusing on the turmoil and not on what FEMA is or is not doing....FEMA has been mobilised since last weekend....but we're not talking about going to Holmstead Florida and addressing a narrow band of destruction....this is three states that have been hit....and FEMA was already busy in Florida....maybe Citizens should get off their fat asses and come help....instead of just blogging their opines....this is a NATIONAL disaster....not a state disaster....NATIONAL.....when Cali got hit with the earthquakes 1 million people didn't lose their way of life...we will all be dealing with this for a while....suck it up and take a deep breath...focus on what needs to be done not what went wrong...focus on makeing sure our Govt. makes the necessary changes so we don't get into this situation again in 15 to 20 years....

You think Miami will never take a Cat 4 or 5 when....things are just starting to get warmed up with global warming and more severe hurricanes....??? Our treasury cannot recoup enough money in 30 years to rebuild a city again and again and again...

I'm all for pointing out that Dubya has done a terrible job of preparing for and then dealing with this disaster, but I'm more interested in making sure we're better prepared for the next disasters----including telling lots of people (Millions) there are places they shouldn't be living and if they choose to live there they shouldn't expect to be bailed out when disaster strikes. Everybody is responsible for their own choices.

 

[noharleyyet]

Please explain how ranting like a broken record brings people to your way of thinking...and please don't use one of your hackneyed dubya analogies. Christ Buzz, you're too damn smart to scream this drumbeat on every post. Funny thing is, I agree with many of your criticisms...it's your 'everybody but me is a dipshit attitude' that completely sinks the dialogue.

Thanks in advance for your next Bush tirade.

 

[Ithaca 37]

"It hasn't been widely discussed yet, but another disaster will strike the victims of Hurricane Katrina on October 17, 2005. And Bush can't say that he didn't anticipate it. He orchestrated it.


The president's beloved Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act goes into effect on that day. Interesting that while the bill was passing though the House Judiciary Committe early this year, Democrats attempted to amend the bill to include measures to protect victims of natural disasters such as hurricanes.

The amendment to the bill, proposed by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (news, bio, voting record) (D-TX) was voted down without debate. Along party lines.

Seems the Republicans would rather see hurricane victims slam head-first into poverty instead of continuing to be protected by Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Seems the profit margins of MBNA are more important.

If Republicans and the president feel inclined to take credit for anything good that happens due to their monopoly on our government, it's probably a good time for them to have the dignity and humility to face up to some accountability.

The first way they can do that is to stand up with Rep. John Conyers (news, bio, voting record)' and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee's legislation which will be proposed as soon as Congress reconvenes.


The legislation we plan to introduce will prevent new bankruptcy provisions from having adverse and unintended consequences for the hundreds of thousands now facing financial catastrophe by providing needed flexibility for victims of natural disasters in bankruptcy proceedings. Our common sense bill will insure that we do not compound a natural disaster with a man made financial disaster. We hope to obtain bipartisan support for expedited consideration of this critical legislation.

This is a vote we should all observe very carefully. Whether you're a Republican, Democrat, or Miscellaneous, we should all agree that the "no" votes will be registered only by the most shameless, disgraceful and sinister politicians in our midst.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADDENDUM: To preempt the invariable "you whiny poopy diaper dem" comments, allow me be to perfectly clear: anyone who voted "yes" on the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act was horribly wrong. Period. I don't care if it was Hillary Clinton or Bill Frist (though in fairness more than half of the Senate Democrats, 25 of them, voted against it). The long term effects of the law will prove to be tragic -- not just for hurricane victims. And anyone who votes "no" on the Conyers/Jackson Lee legislation ought to resign."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050902/cm_huffpost/006633

 

[JoseCuervo]

I think I remember Paul extolling the virtures of the "Bankruptcy Reform"......

 

[Ithaca 37]

Read more. Who downgraded FEMA cabinet level in 2003?

http://wallstreetjackass.typepad.com/

 

[Ithaca 37]

I just can't imagine what it's like to be waving a sign saying 'Come and get me now,' '' Bush said. "But I want people to know there's a lot of help coming.''

"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees,'' he said.

That point was fiercely contradicted on blogs and talk radio Thursday.

In 2001, a FEMA report ranked hurricane damage to New Orleans as one of the three most likely catastrophes facing the country (the other two were a terrorist attack on New York City and an earthquake in San Francisco).

The New Orleans Times-Picayune published a five-part series in 2002 that began with the words: "It's only a matter of time before south Louisiana takes a direct hit from a major hurricane. Billions have been spent to protect us, but we grow more vulnerable every day. ...'' The stories quoted flood experts warning specifically of the potential damage from rising water levels and broken levees.

Despite the warnings, money was cut from flood control as the federal government's focus shifted to terrorism. The Bush administration routinely provided less than half the money the Army Corps of Engineers requested for New Orleans flood prevention. Officials routinely blamed budget restrictions and the war in Iraq in Times-Picayune articles.

A strategic plan produced by FEMA in 2003 noted that "Since September 11 (2001) ... the nation's attention has shifted from natural hazards to include its capability to respond to future terrorist attacks.''

The agency, which was given Cabinet-level status by President Bill Clinton, was folded into the newly created Department of Homeland Security and reported to its secretary rather than directly to the president.....................

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/09/02/MNGSJEHC2S1.DTL

 

[noharleyyet]

No,...this Hurricane is not anyone's fault and the Levee breaking isn't GW fault...no way....the US Army Corps Of Engineers....well....they could have made sure that there was a very well thought out disaster plan....as for the National Guard and FEMA not acting fast enough....I think it's overplayed...ther's never been a situation where we had to air lift by helicopters a hundred thousand people...it takes a couple of days for assets to get where they are needed....

I have issues with the press focusing on the turmoil and not on what FEMA is or is not doing....FEMA has been mobilised since last weekend....but we're not talking about going to Holmstead Florida and addressing a narrow band of destruction....this is three states that have been hit....and FEMA was already busy in Florida....maybe Citizens should get off their fat asses and come help....instead of just blogging their opines....this is a NATIONAL disaster....not a state disaster....NATIONAL.....when Cali got hit with the earthquakes 1 million people didn't lose their way of life...we will all be dealing with this for a while....suck it up and take a deep breath...focus on what needs to be done not what went wrong...focus on makeing sure our Govt. makes the necessary changes so we don't get into this situation again in 15 to 20 years....

You think Miami will never take a Cat 4 or 5 when....things are just starting to get warmed up with global warming and more severe hurricanes....??? Our treasury cannot recoup enough money in 30 years to rebuild a city again and again and again...

I'm all for pointing out that Dubya has done a terrible job of preparing for and then dealing with this disaster, but I'm more interested in making sure we're better prepared for the next disasters----including telling lots of people (Millions) there are places they shouldn't be living and if they choose to live there they shouldn't expect to be bailed out when disaster strikes. Everybody is responsible for their own choices.

Damn good post Ithaca.

 

[Nemont]

Nemont,

Does it matter how much was screwed up before the storm? The important thing now is how you move forward, and do you think flying to Calif to celebrate something that happend 60 years ago was more important than dealing with what will possibly turn out to be a more critical turning point in American History than 9/11? Was there a sequel to My Pet Goat???

It matters if you are blaming someone for mistakes made 18 years ago. Even Local authorities didn't know how bad the situation was until Tuesday. Do you think the President turns off all the millions of dollars worth of communications equipment that travels with him while he was in Texas vacationing? He most likely recieved briefings at least hourly of the situation.

I know you hate the president but I find it intereting that both you and Buzz want him to tear down the dams in the NorthWest to better the survival of salmon but that you want him to build better dikes and levees to artificially increase New Orleans population. What could president Bush do to satisfy either of you? Mistakes will be made regardless of who is in power when confronted with such large challenges.

Nemont

 

[JoseCuervo]

It matters if you are blaming someone for mistakes made 18 years ago. Even Local authorities didn't know how bad the situation was until Tuesday. Do you think the President turns off all the millions of dollars worth of communications equipment that travels with him while he was in Texas vacationing? He most likely recieved briefings at least hourly of the situation.

I know you hate the president but I find it intereting that both you and Buzz want him to tear down the dams in the NorthWest to better the survival of salmon but that you want him to build better dikes and levees to artificially increase New Orleans population. What could president Bush do to satisfy either of you? Mistakes will be made regardless of who is in power when confronted with such large challenges.

Nemont

You will be hard pressed to see where I said the President should build better dikes. If I made any comments on the ineptness of the Corp, it was on their management of the Missisisisisisippippippi River and the fact that New Orleans used to be inland and is now coastal.

My comments are around Dubya's failure in leadership AFTER the storm. Based on his comments this morning, it is obvious that he is doing "damage control" to keep from losing the entire country. His Whitehouse people, when speaking off the record, keep saying that they fugged up on this one....

 

[JoseCuervo]

Check out the disconnect by FEMA Director and everybody else....

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Diverging views of a crumbling New Orleans emerged Thursday. The sanitized view came from federal officials at news conferences and television appearances. But the official line was contradicted by grittier, more desperate views from the shelters and the streets.

These conflicting views came within hours, sometimes minutes of each of each other, as reflected in CNN's transcripts. The speakers include Michael Brown, chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, evacuee Raymond Cooper, CNN correspondents and others. Here's what they had to say:

Conditions in the Convention Center


FEMA chief Brown: We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need. (See video of CNN asking why FEMA is clueless about conditions -- 2:11)


Mayor Nagin: The convention center is unsanitary and unsafe, and we are running out of supplies for the 15,000 to 20,000 people. (Hear Nagin's angry demand for soldiers. 1:04)


CNN Producer Kim Segal: It was chaos. There was nobody there, nobody in charge. And there was nobody giving even water. The children, you should see them, they're all just in tears. There are sick people. We saw... people who are dying in front of you.


Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure.

Uncollected corpses


Brown: That's not been reported to me, so I'm not going to comment. Until I actually get a report from my teams that say, "We have bodies located here or there," I'm just not going to speculate.


Segal: We saw one body. A person is in a wheelchair and someone had pushed (her) off to the side and draped just like a blanket over this person in the wheelchair. And then there is another body next to that. There were others they were willing to show us. ( See CNN report, 'People are dying in front of us' -- 4:36 )


Evacuee Cooper: They had a couple of policemen out here, sir, about six or seven policemen told me directly, when I went to tell them, hey, man, you got bodies in there. You got two old ladies that just passed, just had died, people dragging the bodies into little corners. One guy -- that's how I found out. The guy had actually, hey, man, anybody sleeping over here? I'm like, no. He dragged two bodies in there. Now you just -- I just found out there was a lady and an old man, the lady went to nudge him. He's dead.

Hospital evacuations


Brown: I've just learned today that we ... are in the process of completing the evacuations of the hospitals, that those are going very well.


CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta: It's gruesome. I guess that is the best word for it. If you think about a hospital, for example, the morgue is in the basement, and the basement is completely flooded. So you can just imagine the scene down there. But when patients die in the hospital, there is no place to put them, so they're in the stairwells. It is one of the most unbelievable situations I've seen as a doctor, certainly as a journalist as well. There is no electricity. There is no water. There's over 200 patients still here remaining. ...We found our way in through a chopper and had to land at a landing strip and then take a boat. And it is exactly ... where the boat was traveling where the snipers opened fire yesterday, halting all the evacuations. ( Watch the video report of corpses stacked in stairwells -- 4:45 )


Dr. Matthew Bellew, Charity Hospital: We still have 200 patients in this hospital, many of them needing care that they just can't get. The conditions are such that it's very dangerous for the patients. Just about all the patients in our services had fevers. Our toilets are overflowing. They are filled with stool and urine. And the smell, if you can imagine, is so bad, you know, many of us had gagging and some people even threw up. It's pretty rough.(Mayor's video: Armed addicts fighting for a fix -- 1:03)

Violence and civil unrest


Brown: I've had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they're banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I've had no reports of that.


CNN's Chris Lawrence: From here and from talking to the police officers, they're losing control of the city. We're now standing on the roof of one of the police stations. The police officers came by and told us in very, very strong terms it wasn't safe to be out on the street. (Watch the video report on explosions and gunfire -- 2:12)

The federal response:


Brown: Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well.


Homeland Security Director Chertoff: Now, of course, a critical element of what we're doing is the process of evacuation and securing New Orleans and other areas that are afflicted. And here the Department of Defense has performed magnificently, as has the National Guard, in bringing enormous resources and capabilities to bear in the areas that are suffering.


Crowd chanting outside the Convention Center: We want help.


Nagin: They don't have a clue what's going on down there.


Phyllis Petrich, a tourist stranded at the Ritz-Carlton: They are invisible. We have no idea where they are. We hear bits and pieces that the National Guard is around, but where? We have not seen them. We have not seen FEMA officials. We have seen no one.

Security


Brown: I actually think the security is pretty darn good. There's some really bad people out there that are causing some problems, and it seems to me that every time a bad person wants to scream of cause a problem, there's somebody there with a camera to stick it in their face. ( See Jack Cafferty's rant on the government's 'bungled' response -- 0:57)


Chertoff: In addition to local law enforcement, we have 2,800 National Guard in New Orleans as we speak today. One thousand four hundred additional National Guard military police trained soldiers will be arriving every day: 1,400 today, 1,400 tomorrow and 1,400 the next day.


Nagin: I continue to hear that troops are on the way, but we are still protecting the city with only 1,500 New Orleans police officers, an additional 300 law enforcement personnel, 250 National Guard troops, and other military personnel who are primarily focused on evacuation.


Lawrence: The police are very, very tense right now. They're literally riding around, full assault weapons, full tactical gear, in pickup trucks. Five, six, seven, eight officers. It is a very tense situation here.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Just in case anyone is going to try to defend Bush, read this first:

"Bush Admits Fault on Hurricane Response

NEW ORLEANS - Scorched by criticism about sluggish federal help, President Bush acknowledged the government's failure to stop lawlessness and help desperate people in New Orleans.

ADVERTISEMENT

"The results are not enough," Bush said Friday in the face of mounting complaints from Republicans and Democrats alike.

Bush promised to crack down on crime and violence, rush food and medicine to the needy, and restore electrical power within weeks to millions of customers across the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina...................."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_go_pr_wh/katrina_bush_1

 

[JohnSWA]

Just in case anyone is going to try to defend Bush, read this first:

"Bush Admits Fault on Hurricane Response

NEW ORLEANS - Scorched by criticism about sluggish federal help, President Bush acknowledged the government's failure to stop lawlessness and help desperate people in New Orleans.

ADVERTISEMENT

"The results are not enough," Bush said Friday in the face of mounting complaints from Republicans and Democrats alike.

Bush promised to crack down on crime and violence, rush food and medicine to the needy, and restore electrical power within weeks to millions of customers across the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina...................."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_go_pr_wh/katrina_bush_1

Whether you try do defend him or criticize him, I at least appreciate his honesty!