Forestry leases?

[Calif. Hunter]

Does the forest service still lease land for cattle? A couple friends and I are looking for possible hunting land in New Mexico, and found a piece that says it includes a few thousand acres of national forest lease. I know nothing about how these work - how long are the leases for, what chance is there of losing it, how expensive are they (in general) and so forth. There's ten windmills, a few dirt tanks, two streams, some springs, etc.

 

[GatoMan]

Its still national forest service, anyone can still hunt on it. The leases are for grazing, nothing else, other then that, I really don't know what your getting at, be more specific.

 

[BuzzH]

You may want to double-check with 1pointer on this, but I'm pretty sure you HAVE to graze it if you lease it. You cant let it sit idle. I'm also pretty sure you cant sub-lease the grazing either.

May want to check further.

 

[Nemont]

Buzz is right. If you buy the place the lease on the FS property goes with it. If there is public access to the FS land ie a road adjacent public lands then you can't keep the public off of it. You can lose the lease on this land if you do not graze a set number of AUM's.

The value of the "place" includes the value of that grazing and if you let it go the value drops. I am unsure about the sub leasing but I think that is not allowed.

Nemont

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I realize it is still public land - I just wanted to know how the grazing permits work. I was told that the first thing to find out is how long the permit or permits last. Naturally, it would be best if the forest land was landlocked or remote. Also, what the cost is, or is it based on AUMs? Those are the questions for the Realtor to answer before I bother. One of the guys going in on it is a rancher from Silver City - the 4 of us would be partners. He says the cattle biz would pay for the property. He's successful at it, and will do the due diligence before we make a decision.

 

[BuzzH]

Cali,

Most of the permits are fairly long-term. Some are due for review or new bids are taken. Usually the current lease holder is allowed to match a higher offer to keep the lease. The leases I believe are usually directly tied to the number of AUM's on a yearly basis. They do fluctuate the allowable AUM's based on conditions. It may be worth your time to ask the current owner some of these questions as well.

The one thing you dont have to worry about is that one of your partners has some stock to graze, so that problem is solved.

Good luck, and hopefully it works out for you.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Cali,
With FS leases for grazing, in my experience, you have to own a "Base" piece of property which is generally the private ranch. The "lease" is actually a "permit" that allows one to graze "X" number of cattle (or sheep) on Public FS lands in a defined allotment. The Base piece can be many miles away from the allotment piece of property.

Public Land Grazing (also known as Welfare Ranching) is a practice that is hopefully on its' last legs. If I was buying a Base ranch, I would not value the leases at anything, as they can become worthless and/or a liability based on events beyond your control. There are a number of pro-hunting organziations that are attempting to end Public Land Grazing in order to enhance the hunting experience. Sometimes they stop a small grazing operation, other times it is 800k acres in one fell swoop. But almost every grazing issue decided in courts favors the hunters and finds the ranchers on the losing side.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

While it sounds great, the "base ranch" on this one is fairly small, with a large area of forest under permit. The price seems way too high to me, given the small amount of deeded land. The permit allows for 212 head of cattle.

I would rather have fee title.... thanks for the info!