FLIR? Whats next?

[hossblur]

I try to stay in touch. But this one caught me off guard. If you don't know, it's thermal imaging. It's now "a thing" and apparently common with the "pros", which means becoming common with the wanna be. Shocking to no one, it's a Utah thing. Is it in your state? Did you know about it?

 

[RockinU]

We've been using it for hogs and to a lesser extent predators for a while. I also know of some who have played with it for trying to track wounded game.

What use are you referring to with "pros"?

 

[Exhausted]

I thin it's very common for hogs down here on private land. Completely legal and probably a bit of fun lol.

 

[Bigjay73]

How many are using it for elk and deer though? You know its happening illegal, or not. Definitely not fair chase in my mind.

 

[RockinU]

How many are using it for elk and deer though? You know its happening illegal, or not. Definitely not fair chase in my mind.

Well no, not fair chase, because if they are using it for elk or deer, they are using it at night, which is not legal to start with. Same as spotlighting...

 

[Bigjay73]

Well no, not fair chase, because if they are using it for elk or deer, they are using it at night, which is not legal to start with. Same as spotlighting...

It works during the day as well as night

 

[RockinU]

It works, but doesn’t provide as much advantage.

About the only thing I can think of it doing is maybe showing the presence of game in cover.

 

[hossblur]

I knew about pigs. As a Utah guy, I assume them to be feral, not "game" species.

There are whisperings of some "pros"(guides), are using it with clients. Night vision watching them at night as well. To "scout"

I do insurance work and knew they used to for heat loss, insulation issues. The big game use, in daylight really surprised me(shouldn't I know where I live, money buys everything from tags to laws), but it did.

I was curious as to there legality in taking big game. It's obviously not near fair chase

 

[RockinU]

I’ve used them some, not a lot, for hogs...to be honest I’d never considered their use in daylight, or in a big game context at all. The more I think about it, the shadier it seems.

 

[Bigjay73]

It works, but doesn’t provide as much advantage.

About the only thing I can think of it doing is maybe showing the presence of game in cover.

That's not a huge advantage? You can quickly scan a hill and see where animals are, and aren't? Have you used high end flir binos during the day?

 

[Bigjay73]

And even if they only worked at night, night ends right when shooting light starts. You would know exactly where game was at first light

 

[Bigjay73]

I knew about pigs. As a Utah guy, I assume them to be feral, not "game" species.

There are whisperings of some "pros"(guides), are using it with clients. Night vision watching them at night as well. To "scout"

I do insurance work and knew they used to for heat loss, insulation issues. The big game use, in daylight really surprised me(shouldn't I know where I live, money buys everything from tags to laws), but it did.

I was curious as to there legality in taking big game. It's obviously not near fair chase

I'm certain guides and some tv hunting celebs use them on a regular basis. You could know absolutely nothing about an area, and find animals after driving around and using flir for an hour, probably less.

 

[RockinU]

That's not a huge advantage? You can quickly scan a hill and see where animals are, and aren't? Have you used high end flir binos during the day?

Never binos just a scope, both mounted and for scanning, and only playing around in the daylight, never actually searching for game. As I said, the more I consider it, the worse it sounds. I didn’t know they were being used in such a manner, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

 

[Bigjay73]

Nope, nothing is surprising anymore in this day and age. I don't even know how a game warden would stop it from happening. Good luck proving it in court.

 

[npaden]

That's not a huge advantage? You can quickly scan a hill and see where animals are, and aren't? Have you used high end flir binos during the day?

I bought and sold one of the Leupold LTO thermal trackers. I thought I would possibly be able to use it to help track a wounded animal at some point but it wasn't very effective. I could barely even make it useable looking for my dog in the yard at night let alone trying to scan a hill and seeing animals in cover during the heat of the day. Most outdoor terrain is variable and has lots of different things that retain heat at different rates (rocks, trees, leaves, dirt, etc.) and it was very difficult to actually see anything for me. I could place my hand on a flat table and look at the table after removing my hand and see the heat signature of my hand and that was cool but not very practical. I think some of the super high end stuff may be better, but for the stuff in the under $1,000 category I wouldn't expect to do much but play around with it.

As a side note - what about optics in general? Isn't it a huge advantage to have someone using the new Swarovski BTX and 95mm objective off a tripod scanning a hill to see where the animals are? Compare that with someone scanning with some cheap Bushnells or Nikon Buckmasters or something like that.

When these topics come up I always wonder how spending $6,000+ on high end optics is perfectly fine for fair chase for pretty much everyone but mention a drone or thermal imaging or a trail camera and the whole thing blows up.

As someone who has had a pretty decent drone ($1k+) and a low end thermal device (fairly equivalent to a FLIR), the high end optics are going to give a much bigger advantage to someone than if you were using a drone and thermal device in the current form. There is a chance that drones and thermal devices will improve and provide a bigger assistance in the future, but right now if you gave me a choice between a drone, a FLIR or top of the line optics to use for hunting, I would take the top of the line optics.

My 2 cents. Nathan

 

[Bigjay73]

I bought and sold one of the Leupold LTO thermal trackers. I thought I would possibly be able to use it to help track a wounded animal at some point but it wasn't very effective. I could barely even make it useable looking for my dog in the yard at night let alone trying to scan a hill and seeing animals in cover during the heat of the day. Most outdoor terrain is variable and has lots of different things that retain heat at different rates (rocks, trees, leaves, dirt, etc.) and it was very difficult to actually see anything for me. I could place my hand on a flat table and look at the table after removing my hand and see the heat signature of my hand and that was cool but not very practical. I think some of the super high end stuff may be better, but for the stuff in the under $1,000 category I wouldn't expect to do much but play around with it.

As a side note - what about optics in general? Isn't it a huge advantage to have someone using the new Swarovski BTX and 95mm objective off a tripod scanning a hill to see where the animals are? Compare that with someone scanning with some cheap Bushnells or Nikon Buckmasters or something like that.

When these topics come up I always wonder how spending $6,000+ on high end optics is perfectly fine for fair chase for pretty much everyone but mention a drone or thermal imaging or a trail camera and the whole thing blows up.

As someone who has had a pretty decent drone ($1k+) and a low end thermal device (fairly equivalent to a FLIR), the high end optics are going to give a much bigger advantage to someone than if you were using a drone and thermal device in the current form. There is a chance that drones and thermal devices will improve and provide a bigger assistance in the future, but right now if you gave me a choice between a drone, a FLIR or top of the line optics to use for hunting, I would take the top of the line optics.

My 2 cents. Nathan

The leupold isn't really what we're talking about. These are bino and monocular that are damn near military grade, and can run $10-20,000. You can buy a simple civilian model at Cabelas for around $3000, but its range is less than 800 yds.

 

[marshman]

Thermal imaging equipment used or in the aid of hunting is unlawful in WA state.

 

[hossblur]

I bought and sold one of the Leupold LTO thermal trackers. I thought I would possibly be able to use it to help track a wounded animal at some point but it wasn't very effective. I could barely even make it useable looking for my dog in the yard at night let alone trying to scan a hill and seeing animals in cover during the heat of the day. Most outdoor terrain is variable and has lots of different things that retain heat at different rates (rocks, trees, leaves, dirt, etc.) and it was very difficult to actually see anything for me. I could place my hand on a flat table and look at the table after removing my hand and see the heat signature of my hand and that was cool but not very practical. I think some of the super high end stuff may be better, but for the stuff in the under $1,000 category I wouldn't expect to do much but play around with it.

As a side note - what about optics in general? Isn't it a huge advantage to have someone using the new Swarovski BTX and 95mm objective off a tripod scanning a hill to see where the animals are? Compare that with someone scanning with some cheap Bushnells or Nikon Buckmasters or something like that.

When these topics come up I always wonder how spending $6,000+ on high end optics is perfectly fine for fair chase for pretty much everyone but mention a drone or thermal imaging or a trail camera and the whole thing blows up.

As someone who has had a pretty decent drone ($1k+) and a low end thermal device (fairly equivalent to a FLIR), the high end optics are going to give a much bigger advantage to someone than if you were using a drone and thermal device in the current form. There is a chance that drones and thermal devices will improve and provide a bigger assistance in the future, but right now if you gave me a choice between a drone, a FLIR or top of the line optics to use for hunting, I would take the top of the line optics.

My 2 cents. Nathan

Im old enough to remember the first trail cams and first drones. It will get better and cheaper.

 

[RockinU]

I bought and sold one of the Leupold LTO thermal trackers. I thought I would possibly be able to use it to help track a wounded animal at some point but it wasn't very effective. I could barely even make it useable looking for my dog in the yard at night let alone trying to scan a hill and seeing animals in cover during the heat of the day. Most outdoor terrain is variable and has lots of different things that retain heat at different rates (rocks, trees, leaves, dirt, etc.) and it was very difficult to actually see anything for me. I could place my hand on a flat table and look at the table after removing my hand and see the heat signature of my hand and that was cool but not very practical. I think some of the super high end stuff may be better, but for the stuff in the under $1,000 category I wouldn't expect to do much but play around with it.

As a side note - what about optics in general? Isn't it a huge advantage to have someone using the new Swarovski BTX and 95mm objective off a tripod scanning a hill to see where the animals are? Compare that with someone scanning with some cheap Bushnells or Nikon Buckmasters or something like that.

When these topics come up I always wonder how spending $6,000+ on high end optics is perfectly fine for fair chase for pretty much everyone but mention a drone or thermal imaging or a trail camera and the whole thing blows up.

As someone who has had a pretty decent drone ($1k+) and a low end thermal device (fairly equivalent to a FLIR), the high end optics are going to give a much bigger advantage to someone than if you were using a drone and thermal device in the current form. There is a chance that drones and thermal devices will improve and provide a bigger assistance in the future, but right now if you gave me a choice between a drone, a FLIR or top of the line optics to use for hunting, I would take the top of the line optics.

My 2 cents. Nathan

Flir makes systems that are in no way comparable to what you had, and other companies do as well or better. They have thermal imaging scopes that can not only see at great distance, but in startling detail. If you drop that same $6 grand on a thermal imager you will be able to see the elk laying back in the timber that the guy with the swaro can't see for the trees and brush. The idea behind fair chase is supposed to be that the animal has a chance to get away, if TI technology takes away their ability to hide in brush...well, there may be some issues there.

 

[mtnrunner260]

I know two guys who used mid range models on archery deer hunts in...
Surprise Utah.
Neither killed a buck but it definitely provides an advantage of locating an animal before daylight.
I wish UT would outlaw baiting and FLIR.
Well known guides are getting clients on animals over the right pile of apples via flir this year in southern ut. Nothing illegal about it unfortunately.