Fixing social security

[ImBillT]

I just used 100k as an average so that it could plug into a simple compounding interest calculator. You’ll see that my SS calculator a few posts later was also based on a high income, greater than the contribution ceiling, to make it an apples-apples comparison

im pointing out that income 40 years ago would be dramatically less than income today. You cannot use a flat income for all forty years. You need to depreciate past year’s income for both inflation and the fact that the employee likely started at something resembling an entry level for their chosen career, be it lawyer, or garbage man. Picking the same starting and finishing salary, with the finishing salary being something sane today, results in a drastically inflated contribution over the 40year period.

 

[Deleted member 16864]

We are just going to have to disagree.

That’s just not how capitalism works, and that mentality is what has lead to the ballooning US gini index.

Fundamentally I believe in the American middleclass and for it to survive capitalism needs guardrails.

Communism really is the best way. Take from the haves, give token amount to the have nots. If anyone complains, blame the bourgeoisie. If they keep complaining, well……….

 

[SAJ-99]

Communism really is the best way. Take from the haves, give token amount to the have nots. If anyone complains, blame the bourgeoisie. If they keep complaining, well……….

How does that differ from taxing capital gains and corporate income at a discount to working income? We have seen the results of capitalism and communism and know which direction is best. But democracy has to provide some guide rails. Otherwise we end up at the same place.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I just used 100k as an average so that it could plug into a simple compounding interest calculator. You’ll see that my SS calculator a few posts later was also based on a high income, greater than the contribution ceiling, to make it an apples-apples comparison.

Most people my age with real jobs will average that. 33 years from now when I’m retirement age, $100k won’t mean much ( not that it does now)

Yeah SS was never intended as global retirement, it’s just morphed into that.

What’s kinda interesting is that a large part of the national debt is essentially SS buying “stock” in the US government in order to get some sort of return. Every month millions of Americans contribute to SS so we have to issue more “debt”.

Using quotes because this is overly simplistic. State pension have normal portfolios, I think MI actually is heavily invested in my company… not sure what the effect would be if SS could buy VTI.

Also interesting as much as Fox and Friends like to scream about China buying our debt, the biggest foreign debt holder is Japan. Japan has an incredibly old population, comparatively, and they buy treasuries for their national pension plan. China has actually decreased their holdings.

I think if you look at US debt by sector, all retirement esk holders so mutual fund, pensions, SS, life insurance, etc both foreign and domestic make up the vast majority of debt holders.

Anyway the whole system is supposed to be a backstop, therefore no risk tolerance.

 

[MTGomer]

im pointing out that income 40 years ago would be dramatically less than income today. You cannot use a flat income for all forty years. You need to depreciate past year’s income for both inflation and the fact that the employee likely started at something resembling an entry level for their chosen career, be it lawyer, or garbage man. Picking the same starting and finishing salary, with the finishing salary being something sane today, results in a drastically inflated contribution over the 40year period.

I get that it’s an unrealistically high number.
But it was being compared to a SS payout based on a high income.

To compare it to, Here’s SS for someone that never made a penny under $100k their entire career.

 

[ImBillT]

I get that it’s an unrealistically high number.
But it was being compared to a SS payout based on a high income.

To compare it to, Here’s SS for someone that never made a penny under $100k their entire career.


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I’m just saying that you should start lower and go up. I guess it might not matter if they were always over the cutoff, and you compare that to a personal investment that is the same amount as whatever the cutoff was for all of the prior years.

 

[Nick87]

I’m just saying that you should start lower and go up. I guess it doesn’t matter if they were always over the cutoff, and they invest the same amount as the cutoff.

I think he was just using a round number for easy figuring, for an average.

 

[cgasner1]

Anybody apply for anything today im not reading thru this.

 

[Derek44]

Anybody apply for anything today im not reading thru this.

Then don’t open it. Pretty simple.

And no. I didn’t. I went out and earned some money so I could contribute to SS

 

[cgasner1]

Then don’t open it. Pretty simple.

And no. I didn’t. I went out and earned some money so I could contribute to SS

You guys blew this thing up like 10 pages while I was out earning your social security

 

[Derek44]

You guys blew this thing up like 10 pages while I was out earning your social security

Solving the world’s problems. You’re welcome. If you woulda read, you’d know the solutions. To bad for TLDR. Haha. Oh and so ya know I earned some for yours today too.

 

[cgasner1]

Solving the world’s problems. You’re welcome. If you woulda read, you’d know the solutions. To bad for TLDR. Haha. Oh and so ya know I earned some for yours today too.

The charts say I didn’t

 

[Dave N]

Then don’t open it. Pretty simple.

And no. I didn’t. I went out and earned some money so I could contribute to SS

Thanks for the help!

 

[SAJ-99]

Anybody apply for anything today im not reading thru this.

just waiting now. Waiting for WY to determine how many tags they will issue for their ginormous herd. My past time is arguing about the SS program with people who clearly don’t understand it and have no interest in doing so because it requires them to make hard choices.

Wyoming Game And Fish Proposes Unlimited Elk Tags To Cut Down On Gigantic Herds

In an effort to cull some of the state’s swelling elk herds, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department could offer unlimited cow/calf elk tags in some hunt…

cowboystatedaily.com

 

[Derek44]

Thanks for the help!

Do what I can. Kind of guy I am. Hoping I can count on it when needed as well

 

[SAJ-99]

You guys blew this thing up like 10 pages while I was out earning your social security

Thank you.

 

[Marshian]

@Derek44 What is/ was you and your father’s occupation if you don’t mind me asking.

 

[longbow51]

I have retired, pretty early, with what I hope are pretty comfortable assets. Having said that, luck plays a role. Folks who work manual and get hurt are messed up without SS. And trust me, anyone can get a neurological disease which has no respecter of how hard you hammered. Or cardiovascular. Or cancer. Or immunological. Or rheumatological.

So maybe, lets be a little gentle.

"God forgive me, for I am an old person without money,".
Voices of Old Friends, Simon and Garfunkel, Bookends

 

[Derek44]

just waiting now. Waiting for WY to determine how many tags they will issue for their ginormous herd. My past time is arguing about the SS program with people who clearly don’t understand it and have no interest in doing so because it requires them to make hard choices.

Wyoming Game And Fish Proposes Unlimited Elk Tags To Cut Down On Gigantic Herds

In an effort to cull some of the state’s swelling elk herds, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department could offer unlimited cow/calf elk tags in some hunt…

cowboystatedaily.com

AYCE. Did ya miss that thread. Hahaha.

 

[Beignet]

Yeah SS was never intended as global retirement, it’s just morphed into that.

What’s kinda interesting is that a large part of the national debt is essentially SS buying “stock” in the US government in order to get some sort of return. Every month millions of Americans contribute to SS so we have to issue more “debt”.

Using quotes because this is overly simplistic. State pension have normal portfolios, I think MI actually is heavily invested in my company… not sure what the effect would be if SS could buy VTI.

Also interesting as much as Fox and Friends like to scream about China buying our debt, the biggest foreign debt holder is Japan. Japan has an incredibly old population, comparatively, and they buy treasuries for their national pension plan. China has actually decreased their holdings.

I think if you look at US debt by sector, all retirement esk holders so mutual fund, pensions, SS, life insurance, etc both foreign and domestic make up the vast majority of debt holders.

Anyway the whole system is supposed to be a backstop, therefore no risk tolerance.

Speaking of Japan - would everyone still agree that they’d be better positioned to invest SS monies in the market as they see fit if the US economy took a turn and VTI looked like the Nikkei for 30 years?


Not one to bet against the US economy, but having a low/no risk backstop such as SS is always prudent.