First attempt at “long range” shooting.

[ImBillT]

TWSnow- I do agree that you don’t have to have all that stuff. The last three shots Nathan posted were probably within that kill zone.

I don’t currently use a range finder. I sight it at 200 and I’m 19”-24” low at 450yds depending on bullet. That’s no issue to hit an elk from 0-450yds even with a fair amount of error in both wind and ranging.

That said, I will have all the details worked out before my hunt and a dope sheet from 300-500 in 50yd increments and possibly from 500-600 in 25yd increments. I’ll also know exactly where the hashes in my reticle actually put me. A Chrono and hand loads will help you tighten things up a little.

 

[BuzzH]

Question for the long-range shooters on the forum.......how many of you can achieve a first-round hit on a 2 MOA target at say 700 yards? Since this is HuntTalk and not CompetitionTalk I would assume we all place a lot more value on getting a first-round hit on our target than a competition shooter or someone just out at the range ringing steel. While I also understand that in a lot of long-range shoots the points for the first round are often times set at a higher point value than subsequent shots, there's also a lot less moral and ethical risk involved in a first-round miss (or "bad" hit) plus there's no risk of your target running into the next county, wounded and dying in a canyon or someone's private property.


So you take all that with you when you're hunting? And do all that prep prior to firing a shot at a critter?

I shot 3 rounds a couple weeks ago at 683 yards, 1st round hit about 4 inches right from center on a 12" steel gong, second shot was about 1 inch from that an inch high, third round drifted just right off the gong. Wind picked up just a tick is my guess on the 3rd round drifting further right.

I've had days when a first round hit, almost always on the very windiest days, gets pretty tough past about 450. Doping wind is not physics or science, it gusts, it changes direction, full value, its a monster. Every single time I shoot in pretty tough wind, it just makes me realize that when I encounter those conditions while hunting, its close the gap to 200 or less or I don't shoot.

Some may feel more comfortable shooting in the wind, I'm not one of those.

 

[Focus]

18" at 400 yards...piece of cake, but that's 4.5 MOA. And 18" may be fine for an elk but what about a deer or an antelope? We got guys in this thread that are practicing at 750 yards for antelope shooting at a 12" x 18" target. I'd kinda like to think the stickin' spot on an antelope is a lot smaller than that.

 

[Focus]

I shot 3 rounds a couple weeks ago at 683 yards, 1st round hit about 4 inches right from center on a 12" steel gong, second shot was about 1 inch from that an inch high, third round drifted just right off the gong. Wind picked up just a tick is my guess on the 3rd round drifting further right.

I've had days when a first round hit, almost always on the very windiest days, gets pretty tough past about 450. Doping wind is not physics or science, it gusts, it changes direction, full value, its a monster. Every single time I shoot in pretty tough wind, it just makes me realize that when I encounter those conditions while hunting, its close the gap to 200 or less or I don't shoot.

Some may feel more comfortable shooting in the wind, I'm not one of those.

What shooting position were you using?

 

[BuzzH]

What shooting position were you using?

Prone, off my pack.

 

[Focus]

I've had days when a first round hit, almost always on the very windiest days, gets pretty tough past about 450. Doping wind is not physics or science, it gusts, it changes direction, full value, its a monster. Every single time I shoot in pretty tough wind, it just makes me realize that when I encounter those conditions while hunting, its close the gap to 200 or less or I don't shoot.

This^^^^^ 100%

 

[Focus]

Prone, off my pack.

That's some nice shooting. Real world.

 

[ida homer]

18" at 400 yards...piece of cake, but that's 4.5 MOA. And 18" may be fine for an elk but what about a deer or an antelope? We got guys in this thread that are practicing at 750 yards for antelope shooting at a 12" x 18" target. I'd kinda like to think the stickin' spot on an antelope is a lot smaller than that.

I wouldn't suggest hunting with a load that is shooting an 18" group at 400 yards.

Just emphasizing the size of the target. Even antelope you probably have a diameter of about 10" to hit.

Although I use some of the fancy equipment myself (bubble level, chrono, muzzle brake, app, kestrel, barometer). It's not necessary out to 400 yards
and will confuse and slow their learning process.

 

[Focus]

I wouldn't suggest hunting with a load that is shooting an 18" group at 400 yards.

I should clarify.....hitting an 18" target at 400 yds is a piece of cake. I agree, a rifle shooting an 18" (4.5moa) group at 400 yds is worthless. 1.5 moa would be 1 1/2" at 100 and 6" at 400. I don't start to get excited about a hunting rifle unless it goes under 1 moa.

The other (most?....yeah probably in the OP's case) important factor is whether or not the shooter is up to the capabilities of the rifle.

Although I use some of the fancy equipment myself (bubble level, chrono, muzzle brake, app, kestrel, barometer). It's not necessary out to 400 yards
and will confuse and slow their learning process.

Agree 100%!

 

[ida homer]

So you take all that with you when you're hunting? And do all that prep prior to firing a shot at a critter?

We do. I carry the small green rear sand bag on day hunts occasionally.

Our process is lengthy and ensures the most accurate shot and typically results in a clean 1 shot kill. I noticed that
the "I'm steady and ready" definition in our group means that the cross are literally not moving.

I also noticed that the "I'm steady" definition among other hunters can mean the cross hairs are dancing a softball size
circle on the deer. And that's why I feel like there is such an hora about the often intimidating and feared 400 yard shot.

 

[cahunter805]

I always pack a rear bag with me. The sand is replaced with lighter fill material though. I also always try to shoot prone with the bag if possible. Even if the shot isn’t that far.

 

[npaden]

Lol. I would have never guessed when I posted my crappy shooting at that first target that this thread would get to be 5 pages long!

My gun is for sure better than I am. At 100 yards from a bench we are both (the gun and me) capable of just under 1 MOA. That last target is just over 2 MOA so the difference is me, not the rifle. Hard to get steady sitting on a table shooting off a step stool. I couldn’t really get the rifle with 2 good points of contact or one point of contact long enough to get steady. The shots pretty much hit within the range that I was able to keep myself steady, I was able to keep the crosshairs on the target, but not real steady. I actually feel more confident in my normal field positions (prone, backpack on a rock, etc.) than the way I was setup for these shots. It would be pretty equivalent to using a tree branch for a rest or using some tall shooting sticks. If I’m going to get serious about shooting 400+ yards I need to get a better setup than a table to sit on and a step stool for a rest, but I have to build it high enough to clear my barn!

My personal limit has always been 300 yards and I’ve never clicked a scope before. The longest ranged shot I’ve ever taken at an animal was an elk at 275 yards and I hit it all 3 times I shot and all would have been lethal shots.

To me going past 300 is where things start to chance fast on both drop and windage. Out to 300 yards my rifle drops 9”, going on out to 400 it drops another 13”. 10 mph wind at 300 yards is 5”, stretch it just 100 yard further and it almost doubles to 9”.

The wind is for sure the tricky part, lots of good information here on that.

Thanks for the input. Enjoying the discussion.

Nathan

 

[FLS]

Question for the long-range shooters on the forum.......how many of you can achieve a first-round hit on a 2 MOA target at say 700 yards? Since this is HuntTalk and not CompetitionTalk I would assume we all place a lot more value on getting a first-round hit on our target than a competition shooter or someone just out at the range ringing steel. While I also understand that in a lot of long-range shoots the points for the first round are often times set at a higher point value than subsequent shots, there's also a lot less moral and ethical risk involved in a first-round miss (or "bad" hit) plus there's no risk of your target running into the next county, wounded and dying in a canyon or someone's private property.


So you take all that with you when you're hunting? And do all that prep prior to firing a shot at a critter?

I’m a competitive shooter. I shoot PRS and tactical style matches where we engage 1-2 MOA targets out to 1200-1300 yds on the clock from various positions. Very little of the shooting is prone. If you want to win or place well you make 1st round hits. Last match on one stage we engaged an array of targets with a pistol out to 100 yds, then ran onto a school bus and shot 10 targets out of one of the windows out to 1000 yds with a time limit of 120 seconds. I cleaned it with time to spare.
Last deer I killed was about 125, last antelope was right at 200, bear was about 40. My personal limit on game is 500 depending on conditions, but I’ll get closer, a lot closer, if I can. Most are less than 200. Long range “hunting” is more of a stunt than hunt IMO. A bad wind call at a match is just lost points, on a hunt it can mean a long agonizing death for an animal that derserves better. JMHO

 

[Focus]

Awesome post FLS! Sounds like you got the PRS game dialed for sure, and I love your comments on shot distances for hunting.

Curious if you use the same rifle for both hunting and competition? And what DO you use for both? I’m especially curious about the scope(s).

 

[FLS]

My match rifle started out as Remington 700 5-R in 308. Scope is a Bushnell 3.5-21 DMR. I added bottom metal so I could use 10 round mags and put in a Rilfe Basix trigger and shot it for a couple of years.
There wasn’t a Tactical Division , 223/308, then so I figured out pretty quick the 308 was a serious handicap. Sent the rifle off to Apache Machine and had the action trued, and rebarreled it in 6.5 Creedmoor.
Put in a McMillan A5 adjustable and changed the trigger to a Trigger Tech. I shoot 1 load, a Berger 140 Hybrid over 41.0 grains of H4350 in Lapua brass lit by a BR4 primer. I get 2640 out of a 24” Kreiger with single digit SD and ES. I do hunt with it some. I’ve killed a couple of antelope, a couple of dozen white tails and a bunch of hogs, but it’s a pig to carry. Work schedule has kept me from competing as much as I would like the last couple of years.
I mostly hunt with Remington ADL 700 in 25-06, or a Model 7 in 308. The Model 7 is topped with a Leupold FX3 6X and the 25-06 has a VX3 3-10 x 50. I have several other rifles but those two seem to be the ones I grab most.

 

[Focus]

Sounds like a nice battery you have there FLS. I got into the long range game with a 308 about 6 years ago when my long range mentor was saying that 308's were the best cartridge for entry into the game. Fast forward to today when my LR mentor says the 308 is a has-been and 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges are the way to go. Trouble is I bought a crap-ton of SMK's and feel compelled to work through them as I learn more about the long range game. But you can bet when I out of those bullets I'll be rebarreling to a 6.5 cartridge soon enough.

Thanks for your input!

 

[88man]

If your gonna shoot long range you just gotta practice and every one considers long range starting at a different yardage.

 

[FLS]

Sounds like a nice battery you have there FLS. I got into the long range game with a 308 about 6 years ago when my long range mentor was saying that 308's were the best cartridge for entry into the game. Fast forward to today when my LR mentor says the 308 is a has-been and 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges are the way to go. Trouble is I bought a crap-ton of SMK's and feel compelled to work through them as I learn more about the long range game. But you can bet when I out of those bullets I'll be rebarreling to a 6.5 cartridge soon enough.

Thanks for your input!

The guys winning the 308 class are beating the majority of 6mm and 6.5 mm shooters. The top 20% practice all the time. They dry fire every day and practice getting into a stable position as quickly as they can. Most have barricades similar to what you’ll see at a match, at their house to practice on. I’ve backed way off on the number of LR matches I shoot. It’s a giant time suck and insanely expensive. I thought 3 Gun was expensive till I’d started long range.

 

[BrentD]

FLS, it sounds like you need to transition to the com, sedate world of black powder cartridge target rifle. We would be glad to have you.

 

[Focus]

Man that’s what I love about the shooting sports......you get tired or burned out on one thing, seems like there’s always another disipline to pursue. Although I’ll admit, sometimes I get a little ADD with it all. Mix in all the critters there are to hunt and well, it sometimes gets hard to FOCUS.

Have a great weekend y’all!!

Focus