FILM act

[idahohuntr]

This is an interesting concept. Not sure if I agree or disagree, but curious how many people draw public tags and do anything to profit from that venture.

Vs. the family that applies for tags, goes hunting, takes a few short videos and pics to share with family and friends and goes home.

To be clear - my proposal is we restrict/regulate anyone seeking to generate revenue (don't care whether they profit or not). Non-commercial content (i.e., family videos...even if posted to youtube) - fine to apply in the 'non-commercial' draw.

 

[mtmiller]

So are you saying people like Hushin, THP, Jason Matzinger, Eastmans, Meateater.....etc..etc...are filming without permits? So let's say I run into them, how can I tell if they have one, does it have to be visible? I'm happy to turn people in, but I can't just walk up to them and say, hey, show me your permit

I have seen Jason filming and recording audio at Slippery Ann and later noticed it as commercial content. I assume he had a permit.

I know it was him since he had his name on his license plate...I got a chuckle.

 

[Visiting Hunter]

A residule payment to those permits, based off the income earned off said film... I have no idea how that would be inforceable at all. If your video is giving you a residule income for the rest of your life, I think the payment should reflect that.

 

[TheTone]

A residule payment to those permits, based off the income earned off said film... I have no idea how that would be inforceable at all. If your video is giving you a residule income for the rest of your life, I think the payment should reflect that.

How would the contracts with sponsors figure into that? Easy enough to figure out what YouTube, direct video sales or other online media distribution systems are paying; but what about the almighty sponsor dollar?

 

[Visiting Hunter]

How would the contracts with sponsors figure into that? Easy enough to figure out what YouTube, direct video sales or other online media distribution systems are paying; but what about the almighty sponsor dollar?

Exactly... it never would.. just the far fetched idea I have.

 

[Gellar]

Many of you have already said my thoughts on this subject, so I apologize if I am stealing anyone's thunder.

First, I am very much in favor of multi-use public lands. They are not managed for one user group and unfortunately if they were I think hunters of today would be the odd man out. I agree with Big Fin who said the original intention of the permit rule was not to punish youtubers and influencers, it was made a rule before this social media phenomenon. Rules must change and adapt, so it is time to adapt this rule to fit the majority of people who are creating commercial videos and photographs on public land. I do not feel that banning filming hunts on public land is the answer. I say this with no scientific evidence, but I am almost confident that travel bloggers and lifestyle influencers creating content on public land far outnumber hunting influencers creating content on public land.

I do not feel that enforcing this would require an extraordinarily significant increase in LEO's to enforce. During the non peak times a LEO can randomly watch videos, surf content or whatever in the office. When they come across a video that is most likely shot on public land they can begin their investigation. Was the content monetized, how many people viewed it, did the producer obtain the correct permits, etc. Most DNR/Game and Fish agencies already have officers who are assigned to social media as it seems rule breakers like to brag about the rule breaking on social media.

I think a sliding fee would be appropriate based on reach and footprint of production, someone like Randy who has a minimal crew and basically leaves no trace would pay less than someone who leaves a bigger footprint. I also think a production crew should have to pay for any damages or rules/laws that are broken during production. I recall the state of Alaska suing Sean Penn after the production of Into the Wild for creating a road where he wasn't supposed to.

We also know that some state tourism agencies are paying influencers whether its hunting, hiking, whatever to promote their public areas for tourism. If a tourism agency hires X influencer to hike Z trail and promote it on their channels and it is found out the influencer didnt obtain permits the state or local tourism office should be held accountable too, maybe at a higher degree then the influencer.

To make it easier to follow the rules would something like stamp program work? We have the Federal Duck stamp where a duck hunter pays $25 to hunt ducks and that stamp goes with them to all states. They still must pay the state and local fees though as well. Many of these influencers who might be visiting numerous public lands in any week cannot keep up with the different permits so they probably just dont pay. If the Forest Service had an encompassing permit and BLM had an encompassing permit and the NPS had an encompassing permit for all of their lands it would be much easier to follow than every single forest, park, or refuge having a permit.

Ignorance is bliss. Working with the public it amazes me how many people just do not know the rules for public areas. How many of these influencers actually know they need a permit? I think most of us are aware of the need because we have heard the struggles of the Fresh tracks crew, but I bet a good percentage of these influencers dont even know they need a permit to commercially produce content on public lands.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

I have seen Jason filming and recording audio at Slippery Ann and later noticed it as commercial content. I assume he had a permit.

I know it was him since he had his name on his license plate...I got a chuckle.

Did you go say hi? Does he really talk like that in real life?

 

[gouch]

Special use permits are required for all sorts of things being done on public lands. They range from wanting to film a hunting, hiking or fishing trip for a some commercial use to power and pipeline easements to operating a fishing lodge, being hunting outfitter or running a ski resort, cell towers or even a 10-foot portion of a driveway that runs across public land. And a lot, lot more. These permits are handled by the Lands Department in the forest service. The lands department also handles right of ways, water rights, trespasses, land exchanges and purchases, small tracts issues and a whole host of other things that involve the legalities of land use. When I retired, in the forest service office I worked in the Lands department consisted of one person. For some reason, issuing a permit to someone who wanted to make a hunting video in the wilderness area never seemed to rank real high on the list of things that one guy hoped to accomplish in any given day.

At the same time if a person wants to commercially harvest morels, bear grass or cedar bows, all they have to do was walk into any forest service office and ask the person at the front desk for a permit. Ten minutes later walk out with a permit and a list of regulations. It seems like that would be a much more reasonable way to handle filming permits.

 

[TheTone]

Special use permits are required for all sorts of things being done on public lands. They range from wanting to film a hunting, hiking or fishing trip for a some commercial use to power and pipeline easements to operating a fishing lodge, being hunting outfitter or running a ski resort, cell towers or even a 10-foot portion of a driveway that runs across public land. And a lot, lot more. These permits are handled by the Lands Department in the forest service. The lands department also handles right of ways, water rights, trespasses, land exchanges and purchases, small tracts issues and a whole host of other things that involve the legalities of land use. When I retired, in the forest service office I worked in the Lands department consisted of one person. For some reason, issuing a permit to someone who wanted to make a hunting video in the wilderness area never seemed to rank real high on the list of things that one guy hoped to accomplish in any given day.

At the same time if a person wants to commercially harvest morels, bear grass or cedar bows, all they have to do was walk into any forest service office and ask the person at the front desk for a permit. Ten minutes later walk out with a permit and a list of regulations. It seems like that would be a much more reasonable way to handle filming permits.

I might be okay with making the process easy and then make them $$$$

 

[Forkyfinder]

And I would bet that 100% of the ones that are poachers are also filming with out a permit.

Makes a person wonder why some of them havent also been charged with it?

 

[gouch]

Personally, I don't think the permit should cost any more than the cost of issuing the permit and monitoring the activity. After all it is public land and filming is non consumptive and doesn't put any more stress on the landscape than does the activity being filmed. Activities like hunting or hiking that at least so far, don't require a permit.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Makes a person wonder why some of them havent also been charged with it?

Same reason I didn’t get pulled over yesterday with my expired plates….

They must be looking for bigger things…

I agree though, if i got pulled over for speeding, they’d surely give me a ticket for my plates, tint or whatever else, since I’m already stopped. Why wouldn’t these creators that have been busted for poaching not have permit charges as well? Did they just forget to ask if they had permits since they already busted them poaching?

The one answer that comes to my mind is that Yes, they are really poaching on private and tell us it’s public. Don’t need no stinkin film permit to make money poaching on private

 

[Gellar]

Makes a person wonder why some of them havent also been charged with it?

could be who’s bringing the charges. State vs federal.

I had a NPS LEO tell me once he knows people are shed hunting and mushroom hunting in the park where they are not supposed to but if he brought that ticket to a federal judge his credibility would be ruined if he ever had a bigger case. I don’t know if that’s true or not.

 

[gouch]

Makes a person wonder why some of them havent also been charged with it?

The poaching charge is a state issue, and the permit is a federal issue so the state couldn't charge them for not having a permit.

 

[Gellar]

The poaching charge is a state issue, and the permit is a federal issue so the state couldn't charge them for not having a permit.

Maybe, the poaching charges could also include Lacey act violations which would make it federal.

 

[Matthew57]

Personally, I don't think the permit should cost any more than the cost of issuing the permit and monitoring the activity. After all it is public land and filming is non consumptive and doesn't put any more stress on the landscape than does the activity being filmed. Activities like hunting or hiking that at least so far, don't require a permit.

I disagree. If you’re trying to make money, and using a public resource to do it, you should be required to reimburse the public. A lot of the these people wouldn’t be on the landscape if they weren’t filming and making money. I’m all for simplifying the process of getting the permit though.

 

[TheTone]

Personally, I don't think the permit should cost any more than the cost of issuing the permit and monitoring the activity. After all it is public land and filming is non consumptive and doesn't put any more stress on the landscape than does the activity being filmed. Activities like hunting or hiking that at least so far, don't require a permit.

Filming can absolutely put more stress on the landscape. Once a spot gets burned it tends to fill with people and interest.

The only person that ever blocked me on IG was someone filming their hunt that was being very generous with landmarks. I sent them a polite message to be more discrete and that I could drop a pin on the waterhole they were sitting despite the fact I had never actually been in the drainage. I’d absolutely guess that they didn’t have a film permit either

 

[BourbonSnowCone]

I have seen Jason filming and recording audio at Slippery Ann and later noticed it as commercial content. I assume he had a permit.

I know it was him since he had his name on his license plate...I got a chuckle.

Zing! You also knew it was him because you heard a dude trying to sound like David Attenborough while explaining why it’s best for the resource that he shoots a giant bull and buck every year. Also all of the phones books on the driver’s seat of his jacked up truck.

 

[BourbonSnowCone]

So are you saying people like Hushin, THP, Jason Matzinger, Eastmans, Meateater.....etc..etc...are filming without permits? So let's say I run into them, how can I tell if they have one, does it have to be visible? I'm happy to turn people in, but I can't just walk up to them and say, hey, show me your permit

These guys are largely not hunting public anymore anyways. Maybe THP, occasionally MeatEater. Guarantee Matzinger and Eastman aren’t getting permits to film on the landlocked BLM inside their giant leases. But they must be hunting it because they’re always shooting a “great public land buck/bull.” Love Matzinger’s posts about picking up 30 elk sheds in a weekend on public land. What a fraud. We’ve joked in other threads about game agencies telling public hunters to tighten the laces on your boots and hike further to find game but many of these hunting celebs are con men lying about their experiences. More products sold = more sponsorships/$$$ = bigger and better hunting leases for themselves. Think Cam Hanes keeps hammering while paying $70,000 to hunt elk on the White Mountain Apache Reservation?

 

[Forkyfinder]

These guys are largely not hunting public anymore anyways. Maybe THP, occasionally MeatEater. Guarantee Matzinger and Eastman aren’t getting permits to film on the landlocked BLM inside their giant leases. But they must be hunting it because they’re always shooting a “great public land buck/bull.” Love Matzinger’s posts about picking up 30 elk sheds in a weekend on public land. What a fraud. We’ve joked in other threads about game agencies telling public hunters to tighten the laces on your boots and hike further to find game but many of these hunting celebs are con men lying about their experiences. More products sold = more sponsorships/$$$ = bigger and better hunting leases for themselves. Think Cam Hanes keeps hammering while paying $70,000 to hunt elk on the White Mountain Apache Reservation?

Guess i didnt realize matzingee was a complete fraud...