Endangered Grizzly Bear Photo Thread

EYJONAS! said:
Yes you have the same deadline to buy the permit just like a goat or moose tag which has traditionally been in the first or second week of August to buy the actual permit. So if someone wants to plan and isn't sure early summer they have time to plan.
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Yeah, I was like 95% sure that was how it worked, but was told different by a lady at FWP special licensing. Just got off the phone with another gal there and was told the same as what you posted. There are a couple of things in the regs dealing with unlimited sheep that are incorrect or at the minimum very confusing.
 
theat said:
Yeah, I was like 95% sure that was how it worked, but was told different by a lady at FWP special licensing. Just got off the phone with another gal there and was told the same as what you posted. There are a couple of things in the regs dealing with unlimited sheep that are incorrect or at the minimum very confusing.
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Par for the course. Hell i know guys that have actually bought the tag on their 7 year wait..... still hasn't been fixed.
 
EYJONAS! said:
Par for the course. Hell i know guys that have actually bought the tag on their 7 year wait..... still hasn't been fixed.
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Roll into the FWP office in Missoula and try to buy an unlimited tag. “Nope, you have to draw sheep tags.” I explain that it’s unlimited and she says there is no such thing. I ask for her manager. Manager comes out and says “sir, not sure what you are talking about, but you have to draw tags for bighorn sheep.” I said “ok” and went to the parking lot to buy it on my phone…

Edit to add: This was two years ago so maybe it’s improved since then.
 
EYJONAS! said:
Par for the course. Hell i know guys that have actually bought the tag on their 7 year wait..... still hasn't been fixed.
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I spent an hour on the phone with one of the higher ups in the licensing department last December talking about this. I told him that I had talked to a guy hunting sheep in the unlimited unit that had killed a ram there two years earlier. I had called the hunter out on it and he showed me his tag and some pics of the ram he killed 2 years earlier. Told me that his buddy had done the same thing. The guy at FWP kept telling me that the system wouldn't let a successful hunter buy another sheep license. I didn't complete the purchase, but the system sure let me add an unlimited sheep tag to my cart when I applied this year and Im in the middle of my supposed 7 year wait. I really don't think most at the licensing department know hardly anything about how the unlimited sheep tags work. The guy there kept saying that when you draw a tag the system automatically puts you on the 7 year wait, but I kept explaining that is incorrect since you can keep buying them until you are successful (and apparently even when you are successful). I told him that there needs to be some system or connection between the unlimited sheep reporting and the special licensing department. After an hour of talking to him, he still thought that I was incorrect. One of the last things I said was that it should be pretty simple to see if it has been happening since there are so few successful unlimited hunters that they could compare to current tag holders. He said he would look into it, but even after contacting him several more times via email, I haven't received any response.
 
Carnage2011 said:
Roll into the FWP office in Missoula and try to buy an unlimited tag. “Nope, you have to draw sheep tags.” I explain that it’s unlimited and she says there is no such thing. I ask for her manager. Manager comes out and says “sir, not sure what you are talking about, but you have to draw tags for bighorn sheep.” I said “ok” and went to the parking lot to buy it on my phone…

Edit to add: This was two years ago so maybe it’s improved since then.
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🤣
I do laugh about the conundrums of MTFWP and the fine individuals that are employed there. But, I will say I'm very very nervous for what happens when Mr. Stewart retires.....

Maybe a smooth transition but i doubt it.
 
theat said:
I spent an hour on the phone with one of the higher ups in the licensing department last December talking about this. I told him that I had talked to a guy hunting sheep in the unlimited unit that had killed a ram there two years earlier. I had called the hunter out on it and he showed me his tag and some pics of the ram he killed 2 years earlier. Told me that his buddy had done the same thing. The guy at FWP kept telling me that the system wouldn't let a successful hunter buy another sheep license. I didn't complete the purchase, but the system sure let me add an unlimited sheep tag to my cart when I applied this year and Im in the middle of my supposed 7 year wait. I really don't think most at the licensing department know hardly anything about how the unlimited sheep tags work. The guy there kept saying that when you draw a tag the system automatically puts you on the 7 year wait, but I kept explaining that is incorrect since you can keep buying them until you are successful (and apparently even when you are successful). I told him that there needs to be some system or connection between the unlimited sheep reporting and the special licensing department. After an hour of talking to him, he still thought that I was incorrect. One of the last things I said was that it should be pretty simple to see if it has been happening since there are so few successful unlimited hunters that they could compare to current tag holders. He said he would look into it, but even after contacting him several more times via email, I haven't received any response.
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Well I fault the hunter for that and his buddy for pulling that kind of shit too. Some point a guy has to have some morals and self control realizing that isn't right. Things like this are exactly what can ruin these opportunities we have. Same with shooting lambs and not following rules of check in and reporting properly.

It's 2023 this fwp licensing bullshit needs to come to a head. For them to not even understand their own system or not even have the knowledge to relay the correct information on draws and stats is total bs. Unfortunately they just can't seem to figure it out. When your whole department doesn't have any form of any check and balance system in place that's a major red flag.

I commend you for calling the guy out. There's plenty of great people that participate in these hunts and follow the rules. Just like yourself because of the respect they have for all of it.
 
EYJONAS! said:
Well I fault the hunter for that and his buddy for pulling that kind of shit too. Some point a guy has to have some morals and self control realizing that isn't right. Things like this are exactly what can ruin these opportunities we have. Same with shooting lambs and not following rules of check in and reporting properly.

It's 2023 this fwp licensing bullshit needs to come to a head. For them to not even understand their own system or not even have the knowledge to relay the correct information on draws and stats is total bs. Unfortunately they just can't seem to figure it out. When your whole department doesn't have any form of any check and balance system in place that's a major red flag.

I commend you for calling the guy out. There's plenty of great people that participate in these hunts and follow the rules. Just like yourself because of the respect they have for all of it.
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Anyone caught doing that should be treated like they are hunting without a license, since they can't legally hunt for 7 years. Throw the book at them and give them a lifetime ban on top of everything.
 
Drake4 said:
I know for a fact that if you draw a special sheep tag, and are on your 7-year wait, you can still buy an unlimited tag.
Not saying it's legal, but the system lets you do it.
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From page 36 of the 2023 MT Bighorn Sheep Regulations, "An applicant who receives a limited either-sex or legal ram license is not eligible to apply for or receive another either-sex or legal ram bighorn sheep license for the next secceeding seven years."

It further states, "An applicant who receives an unlimited legal ram license and harvests a legal ram is not eligible to receive or apply for another bighorn sheep lilcense for the following seven years."

I read that as saying that anyone who just draws a limited sheep license is not eligible to apply or receive another bighorn sheep license for the next secceeding seven years. When you buy an unlimited sheep license you receive it.

Clear as mud???
 
I agree with you. I'm just saying the system allows you to purchase an unlimited license while on your 7-year wait after drawing a permit.
 
I’d say email the head of the department about folks being able to buy an UL tag during their waiting period. Licensing used to be his division. Would be curious to see if he could get a thing fixed.
 
Seems like this would be a really simple thing to look into, they're only selling between 30-60 licenses per year per unit. With only 1-7 harvests per year. Have any of those successful guys bought another tag in the 7 period? Has anyone harvested another ram?

The department first needs to figure out if this is actually a problem that people are exploiting.
 
mtnkid85 said:
Seems like this would be a really simple thing to look into, they're only selling between 30-60 licenses per year per unit. With only 1-7 harvests per year. Have any of those successful guys bought another tag in the 7 period? Has anyone harvested another ram?

The department first needs to figure out if this is actually a problem that people are exploiting.
Click to expand...
In post #3750, @theat told about running into someone with a sheep tag hunting two years after taking a ram. So, it sounds like it happens. If there is any loophole, someone will exploit it.
 
mtnkid85 said:
Seems like this would be a really simple thing to look into, they're only selling between 30-60 licenses per year per unit. With only 1-7 harvests per year. Have any of those successful guys bought another tag in the 7 period? Has anyone harvested another ram?

The department first needs to figure out if this is actually a problem that people are exploiting.
Click to expand...
The days of 30-60 tags ended in 2010. Now it’s 130-160.
 
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