Elk Hunter Magazine

[Zim]

I got a trial issue of Elk Hunter Magazine in the mail this week. Anyone else get one of these? The first thing I did was check the credits page and saw the Publisher is Floyd Green and Marketing is Chris Denham. Both these guys are on the board of directors of AZSFW/AZSFWC. Denham posted a letter adamantly supporting AZHB2072, claiming they only wanted to steal .2 of 1% of the public tags in AZ. (He forgot to mention these were the cream of the crop tags)

Then I got into a discussion with editor, Ryan Hatfield, on MM. He claims he is againt SFW, but then goes on to claim he supports the UTSFW theft of 200 nonresident tags to raffle to ALL hunters. And he believes attending the EXPO is not supporting SFW, nor is buying raffle tickets. What up? OK so you take your wallet out, extract cash and put in Don Peay's hand, all the while boosting Expo attendence numbers by your mere presence. But this is not supporting SFW? What am I missing?

I can't bring myself to even hold this magazine, much read it. Also pigs would fly before I attended the SLC Expo and bought raffle tags there. That is just the way I was raised. Anyone else see this magazine? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[WV Hunter]

I got the same free mag as well. I did look thru it and found some spelling errors thumbing thru it. Nice pics though.

We had a pretty good thread on this before:

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=249451

 

[jlmatthew]

I subscribed to it and recieved my first issue last week. Its not bad IMO

 

[Esau]

A Good Magazine! nicely laid out and great stories!

 

[6speed]

There was another thread as well. Idahonative called out anyone who posted negative comments that were "man enough" to step forward and said he would give them a years subscription to the mag. I replied on the post, to his PM on here and shot him an email. I'm sure he's been busy because I haven't heard a peep since.

 

[npaden]

Zim,

You don't even know who you were having a discussion with, and I sure didn't see anything where anyone in that thread said they supported what you call " the UTSFW theft of 200 nonresident tags to raffle to ALL hunters."

There was a Jay Scott who posted on the thread one time, but I think you were having a "discussion" with Ryan Hatfield.

This was very poor timing for the new magazine on the AZ tag grab attempt and the connection with Floyd Green and Chris Denham being associated with it through their membership in AZSFW. I would hate to see the new magazine fail because of it.

I don't know the details, but I would imagine that Outdoorsmans and Floyd Green are providing a significant portion of the financial backing to make this work and it would be very difficult to find a new major sponsor and publisher right in the middle of getting your first few issues out the door.

Seems that Ryan is between a rock and a hard place and a lot of folks are chosing this as the time to be throwing stones at him at the same time as well.

From all I have heard on the magazine if you ignored the names on the back flap and just looked at the content you would think that it specifically catered to on your own hunters just like us. My friend Mike had a picture of his bull he shot in Wyoming on public land with a general tag included in the premiere issue. It grossed 315", not quite a governor's tag bull, but the biggest one he's ever shot. I think this second issue might have a picture of 2 boys playing with toy guns on the creek at camp that I sent in. It really sounds like this magazine is going to be one for the real guys, not some fluffed up parade of governors tag outfitted hunters with massive animals on the ground year after year. I'll admit I'm probably a little biased since the picture of my buddy made it in the magazine, but I think it really is going to be a good product.

I'm anxiously awaiting my first issue.

Nathan

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Guys, it's not that the magazine may or may not be the best thing that's come out in ages. It's the fact that there are top people involved in it that are open supporters of SFW. What Zim is saying and that I agree with is that we could care less if the magazine is fantastic and the other people writing for it are the cream of the crop. It's the fact that when you put yourself in a room with skunks the smell tends to permeate everything therein. A few years ago Outdoor Life was a top magazine with Jim Zumbo as the Editor and he made one little blog from a remote hunting camp he was in about black guns not being what he considered for hunting. He lost his job, as well as his TV show for a time due to public pressure put on his employers. He was literally getting flogged until Uncle Ted stepped in and helped to rectify the situation and put things in perspective. In my mind I cannot support anything that has a remote connection with anything that I despise and right now the SFW/BGF organizations are right at the top of the heap. Sorry, but that's just the way I was brought up and I will not change or be a hypocrite in supporting this magazine's endeavors to get off the ground knowing who is involved in running it.

 

[WI avidhunter]

I got my first issue and enjoyed it.

 

[WV Hunter]

Zim,

You don't even know who you were having a discussion with, and I sure didn't see anything where anyone in that thread said they supported what you call " the UTSFW theft of 200 nonresident tags to raffle to ALL hunters."

There was a Jay Scott who posted on the thread one time, but I think you were having a "discussion" with Ryan Hatfield.

This was very poor timing for the new magazine on the AZ tag grab attempt and the connection with Floyd Green and Chris Denham being associated with it through their membership in AZSFW. I would hate to see the new magazine fail because of it.

I don't know the details, but I would imagine that Outdoorsmans and Floyd Green are providing a significant portion of the financial backing to make this work and it would be very difficult to find a new major sponsor and publisher right in the middle of getting your first few issues out the door.

Seems that Ryan is between a rock and a hard place and a lot of folks are chosing this as the time to be throwing stones at him at the same time as well.

From all I have heard on the magazine if you ignored the names on the back flap and just looked at the content you would think that it specifically catered to on your own hunters just like us. My friend Mike had a picture of his bull he shot in Wyoming on public land with a general tag included in the premiere issue. It grossed 315", not quite a governor's tag bull, but the biggest one he's ever shot. I think this second issue might have a picture of 2 boys playing with toy guns on the creek at camp that I sent in. It really sounds like this magazine is going to be one for the real guys, not some fluffed up parade of governors tag outfitted hunters with massive animals on the ground year after year. I'll admit I'm probably a little biased since the picture of my buddy made it in the magazine, but I think it really is going to be a good product.

I'm anxiously awaiting my first issue.

Nathan

I saw your kids picture in the magazine, congrats.

 

[Zim]

Zim,

You don't even know who you were having a discussion with, and I sure didn't see anything where anyone in that thread said they supported what you call " the UTSFW theft of 200 nonresident tags to raffle to ALL hunters."

There was a Jay Scott who posted on the thread one time, but I think you were having a "discussion" with Ryan Hatfield.

Nathan

Just quoted the wrong name. I corrected it. As to the raffle tag issue, you must have missed Ryan's quote. C&P his words:

"I don't have a problem with raffle tag winners in any state. At least anyone with a $5 bill had a legitimate chance in those cases, keeping those animals a possibility to ALL people."

The Utah Expo is PRECISELY what Ryan is referring to here. And I replied accordingly:

"Problem I have is when those tags are the best of the best, stolen from regular Joe nonresident Hunter who has paid and waited 16 years, via a corrupt political process operating under the ruse of conservation but with zero accountability, peddled to people who didn't wait their turn in line. But hey Joe can still have a snowball's chance in hell for something he's already paid for......for $5......plus travel expenses for a 3,000 mile round trip. Ya I guess that counts for all people."

So he supports SFW..............and he doesn't support SFW. OK

 

[npaden]

Just quoted the wrong name. I corrected it. As to the raffle tag issue, you must have missed Ryan's quote. C&P his words:

"I don't have a problem with raffle tag winners in any state. At least anyone with a $5 bill had a legitimate chance in those cases, keeping those animals a possibility to ALL people."

The Utah Expo is PRECISELY what Ryan is referring to here. And I replied accordingly:

"Problem I have is when those tags are the best of the best, stolen from regular Joe nonresident Hunter who has paid and waited 16 years, via a corrupt political process operating under the ruse of conservation but with zero accountability, peddled to people who didn't wait their turn in line. But hey Joe can still have a snowball's chance in hell for something he's already paid for......for $5......plus travel expenses for a 3,000 mile round trip. Ya I guess that counts for all people."

So he supports SFW..............and he doesn't support SFW. OK

Nope I didn't miss his comment on not having a problem with raffle tag winners. I took it for exactly what it was. I don't think he has a problem with raffle tag winners.

That is along way from your original statement of: " then goes on to claim he supports the UTSFW theft of 200 nonresident tags to raffle to ALL hunters".

I apply for Montana Super Tag raffle tags and some Colorado Wild Sheep Foundation raffle tags and even some Idaho raffle tags. In your world I guess that means I support UTSFW was well.

Ryan didn't even say he bought any raffle tags, he just said he didn't have a problem with someone that did buy them, and somehow you twist that around and say that he supports UTSFW? If you are going to bash someone on another forum at least try to be a little bit accurate in what you are claiming that they said or didn't say.

 

[idnative1948]

Just so long as I am not confused with another *Native*. Just hope my mailbox doesn't fill up.

There was another thread as well. Idahonative called out anyone who posted negative comments that were "man enough" to step forward and said he would give them a years subscription to the mag. I replied on the post, to his PM on here and shot him an email. I'm sure he's been busy because I haven't heard a peep since.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

Magazines? Go green.

 

[barefooter19]

I heard about SFW and the congressman from Arizona wanting to take out alot of big game tags and my first thought was I will never draw a Arizona elk tag if they do that. My brother lives in Salt Lake and has nothing good to say about what SFW has done there. I checked on the people you mentioned and I don't really wish to help anyone that would try to do to hunting what they are trying to do. I don't usually get worked up about much on the hunting www sites but that really rubed me the wrong way!! Kinda makes me feel like I would be supporting people that want to make hunting a richmans sport or at least wanting to cater to the rich with tags many of us have been waiting many years to draw.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

barefooter19---That's exactly why Zim and I are stating what we have in regards to this new mag! When a guy like Denham comes out in an email in full support of that AZ tag grab and the fact that he and the publisher of this new magazine are on the SFW Board of Directors it is hypocritcal IMHO to support it regardless of how good it may be!

 

[Zim]

Nope I didn't miss his comment on not having a problem with raffle tag winners. I took it for exactly what it was. I don't think he has a problem with raffle tag winners.

That is along way from your original statement of: " then goes on to claim he supports the UTSFW theft of 200 nonresident tags to raffle to ALL hunters".

I apply for Montana Super Tag raffle tags and some Colorado Wild Sheep Foundation raffle tags and even some Idaho raffle tags. In your world I guess that means I support UTSFW was well.

Ryan didn't even say he bought any raffle tags, he just said he didn't have a problem with someone that did buy them, and somehow you twist that around and say that he supports UTSFW? If you are going to bash someone on another forum at least try to be a little bit accurate in what you are claiming that they said or didn't say.

I am not familiar with the source of the Montana nor Colorado raffle tickets so I'll not comment. Ryan dam well knows the source of the 200 UT raffle tickets. How anyone can turn away and ignore that source and justify the screwing is way, way, way beyond the morals I was raised with. He is pooling those tags with all other raffe tags. You see son, it don't work that way! But the problem is this world is full of greedy people that simply look the other way and go about their business.................It's all good. Apathetic.

Let me ask you a question npaden.............How many of your raffles cost $5 per ticket like Ryan refers to????????????????

The cheap prices were set by Don Peay intentionally targeting every day Joe Hunter, to make him feel like a part of the SFW agenda. I assure you Joe Hunter is not a part of SFW's agenda. Nowhere near it.

Those money generated from those raffle tags have absolutely ZERO accoutability. Are you aware of that???....................Tags stolen from guys who paid and waited 16 years.

No, I don't choose to look the other way, forget the truth, and simply pool those $5 raffle tags with other typical raffle tags like this Ryan is OBVIOUSLY doing.

Ryan is the one who is twisting reality, not me!

 

[Zim]

Sorry, but taking your wallet out, taking money out of it, and depositing into Don Peay's hand will always constitute "supporting SFW" in my book.

That is the way I was raised, and I cannot change.

If you choose to believe that is not the case, we can agree to disagree.

 

[spook12]

Hey Zim, If you care to you can go back and check my reply to idahonative when he made his offer to a few of us .I stated then, and have not changed my mind that i can not support any mag that has Chris Denham on the masthead.I have seen a lot of what you have said about this topic, both here and on MM.I think we are pretty much in agreement on the subject. That said i think you might have more credibility with people, if you didnt make it so personal . How about standing up for whats right, just because its right. why does the conversation seem to always come back to how you got screwed . Maybe just maybe its our system thats under attack and not you personally . Just a thought.

 

[idahonative]

6 Speed - I want to address you first, because I don't want to have this get lost in the shuffle. I apologize that you somehow got missed - we did give several issues away, and you should have gotten one. If you can email your info to me at [email protected], I'll make sure you are taken care of. Thanks, and again, sorry you got missed. It's been a crazy few months. Now, on to business....

I hope each of you can take the time to read the short novel I have written here. It's important to me or I wouldn't have spent the time to do it.

Zim, I have to say, of all the people I think I have ever talked to in my life, you have to be the biggest idiot of them all. And considering I don't ever say that kind of thing to people, that's saying something. You continually make a fool of yourself on all these websites trying to come across like something magnanimous and as a champion of wildlife, when in reality, you have to be the biggest whiner I've ever "listened" to, only ever truly concerned with two things: 1) yourself, and 2) constant whining with no intent to listen to anyone. You get bashed by many contributors to these forums, and for good reason. Your credibility continues to spiral down the drain.
1. Don't EVER put words in my mouth or try to paint a picture of me that isn't true. Those who know me or have read my work know that your words are nothing but drivel. If you knew ANYTHING about me, you would know that I have been fairly outspoken against governor's tags and SFW for years! Never been a fan of them and never will. I give press to the wolf issue, I promote DIY blue-collar hunting, and have lived it for my entire life, killing damn near every animal of my life on public land. You want to know about me? Read my last column I wrote in EHJ about my thoughts on my cousin recently killed in Afghanistan, "One Gave All" or "The Legacy You Leave Behind", or "My Old Friend" about the loss of a mentor, or my constant vigilance about what I have EVER let in any of my publications. I have at all costs kept from Governor's tag stories, high dollar hunts, trail camera central, baiting, have been outspoken about high-fenced hunts, and never gave one lousy ounce of ink to the Spider bull. I represent everything you seem to espouse, yet you want to try to lump me in with SFW - it's an absolute crock of crap. I knew how bad SFW was years before it was fashionable.
2. My magazine will reflect my values, which are the hard-hunting, ethical, respectful hunter/conservationist values toward wildlife - the same values you supposedly have, yet you continue to try to railroad against this magazine that would help to educate tens of thousands of hunters down a better path. For that alone you are a fool and it shows how tunnel-visioned you have become with your hate rather than think about the big picture.
3. I said I didn't have a problem with raffle tags. I don't. As fundraisers, I would much rather support a raffle tag process to raise money for wildlife where every common man has a chance than governor's (auction) tags that go to the wealthy. Raffle tags exist in Oregon, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, etc. etc. I generally put in for most of them, as many do, because it's another chance to hopefully draw a tag. I put in for the New Mexico sheep raffle, but don't know a lot about the organization. It's a few bucks and that's all I need to know. I put in for Oregon mountain goat - same thing. Putting in for a raffle tag somewhere is no more an endorsement for a group than buying a bag of Doritos is a YES vote for Obama. It's a ludicrous leap that no one is buying. Most of us put in for raffle here or there and it means nothing. Just stop with your rhetoric.
4. Zim, I get that you have an issue with one or two of our people involved with the publication, and that's fine. What I don't get is that you are letting that blind you to the fact that this publication is going to champion a lot of the beliefs you seem to be fighting for. Stop bashing it and let it preach and stand for the issues you seem to be so passionate about. Seriously. Quite misdirecting your anger and direct it directly at SFW since it's them you hate.
5. Here is my post on MonsterMuleys for some more thoughts on this subject:
My personal opinion is that big game should never be for sale to the highest bidder. Even if the short term is good (or supposedly good) for money infusion, I believe it sends an extremely bad message that our wildlife is for sale. Teddy Roosevelt and our conservation founders believed that the game should always belong to the people - regardless of wealth - and I think governor's tags basically say that for the right price, they are for sale. To me, it's similar to the movie "Indecent Proposal" - no one is sleeping with my wife for $1 million dollars, and I don't believe that our ethics with big game management should be sacrificed for $$$ either. It's dirty money in my book. I respect those who think otherwise, but I steadfastly disagree with them.
While I understand - TO A POINT - the theory of not sending your money to someone who you think might not represent your values, ponder this:
A) Have you given a questionnaire to each and every contributing editor or manager of B&C, RMEF, Petersen's Hunting, and Bow & Arrow asking their position statements on every topic under the sun? Probably not. You get enough people involved in something, and I guarantee you that not everyone agrees on everything. Do you agree with your wife on everything? I bet not, and I bet you don't threaten to divorce her if you only agree on 90% of the issues.
B) Even if a person on our staff did support something you don't believe in, ask yourself this: Are you cutting off your nose to spite your face by "boycotting"? In other words, Ryan Hatfield is the editor, and as such, a lot of my view, ethics, direction, and message is what will be reflected in the magazine. I plan on keeping this magazine (and Western Hunter as well) extremely ethical and representative of the views that I know you will find favorable. There's an old adage that you "don't mess with a guy that buys ink by the barrel". In other words, this magazine has a LOT of reach and influence. If my mission is to send the right message (which it is), keep it extremely classy and ethical, and make it something you'd all be proud of - and that influences 50,000 people in the RIGHT DIRECTION - then why would you boycott it because 1 or 2 people might think differently than you do on one or two topics?
Just some food for thought to any "knee-jerk" boycotters out there. This magazine is quickly on its way to becoming a major player, and I have no intention of having it be anything less than the best, classiest, most visually appealing, informative, and inspiring publication in the West, with a hunter/conservationist message that is ALWAYS respectful of wildlife. Wanna be a part of it? Sign up. If not, throw the magazine away. I appreciate those who took the time to read this and think about the big picture.

To those reading this, I have always at all costs conducted myself professionally at all times when it comes to my magazines, my work, and my visions. I apologize to you for calling Zim an idiot, but I don't apologize to him. I stand by it.

 

[Big Fin]

Ryan - Thanks for that reply.

Given all you have done for wildlife and your efforts toward the kind of hunting this show and website is about, you are welcome here any time. Some research on Ryan and his background will show to most that he is the real deal.

Whether you want to boycott the magazine, or order the magazine, we should all realize the benefits of having a hunter such as Ryan as the editor. He will guide the magazine in ways that reflect what he believes, which for people who hunt like most on this site, is good.