Declining number of hunters

[mplane72]

If my post introduced generation bashing it was not my intent. I was talking about how hard it is for a new hunter, and sadly many former, of any age to feel that hunting is a worthwhile use of their time. Often because they don't have the connections or increasingly more often MONEY to access someplace decent to hunt.

 

[Big Fin]

Maybe if we can stop self-aggrandizing hunting; stop making it sound like only navy seals can do it, then younger folks would be more interested?

Given how much grief I get from the gym rats for being a desk jockey who eats DQ four times per week, I've made a point to share my "secrets of success" when it comes to being a 55 year-old, gray, pot bellied, elk hunter.

#DillyBar #DQ4Life #PoweredByDQ #TheBlizzardIsReal

 

[RidgeRoamingRichard]

From pergenerationQUOTE="mplane72, post: 2951753, member: 28450"]
If my post introduced generation bashing it was not my intent. I was talking about how hard it is for a new hunter, and sadly many former, of any age to feel that hunting is a worthwhile use of their time. Often because often they don't have the connections or increasingly more often MONEY to have access to someplace decent to hunt.

Damn guys, I didn't even know generation bashing was a thing. Did I mention I'm a millennial ha ha?

Like I said, I've noticed a decline in the ability to handle adversity in the population, a product of removing societal obstacles and generally making life easier. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a product of social advancement.

Therefore, when we talk about hunting, we should try not to make it sound more difficult, just because it makes us feel better about our accomplishments. This is something I work on myself.

I think figures like Big Fin are great at this. Randy seems like a guy like you and me, whose passion drives him to accomplish great things with Howa in-hand. He doesn't make it sound like you have to be a certain type of person, you just have to want it.

I appologize for offending my peers.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Damn guys, I didn't even know generation bashing was a thing. Did I mention I'm a millennial ha ha?

Like I said, I've noticed a decline in the ability to handle adversity in the population, a product of removing societal obstacles and generally making life easier. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a product of social advancement.

#millennial

 

[mplane72]

Damn guys, I didn't even know generation bashing was a thing. Did I mention I'm a millennial ha ha?

Like I said, I've noticed a decline in the ability to handle adversity in the population, a product of removing societal obstacles and generally making life easier. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a product of social advancement.

Therefore, when we talk about hunting, we should try not to make it sound more difficult, just because it makes us feel better about our accomplishments. This is something I work on myself.

I think figures like Big Fin are great at this. Randy seems like a guy like you and me, whose passion drives him to accomplish great things with Howa in-hand. He doesn't make it sound like you have to be a certain type of person, you just have to want it.

I appologize for offending my peers.

I have a 19 and 17 year old. I do plenty of generation bashing..... Just like my dad to me and my bro. I don't discount you're assessment of the situation.

Unfortunately, I'm a firm believer the decline of hunters is much deeper than generational differences. I am becoming convinced it's going to become a haves vs. have nots.

 

[Deleted member 38069]

@RidgeRoamingRichard more like peers' kids! You made valid points.

A comment above was self deprecating, as he claimed to be a millennial. So no offense was there if read properly. I am technically a millennial as well. Thank God for my parents insulating me from most city ways and kicked me off to the service!

 

[RidgeRoamingRichard]

I have a 19 and 17 year old. I do plenty of generation bashing..... Just like my dad to me and my bro. I don't discount you're assessment of the situation.

Unfortunately, I'm a firm believer the decline of hunters is much deeper than generational differences. I am becoming convinced it's going to become a haves vs. have nots.

I agree with you there!

 

[jryoung]

Latest American Hunter mag has article on the Ammo situation in California and point to a large drop in hunter number statewide. In short, one can only purchase Ammo in California if you're a CA resident, and have a firearm registered with the state. you cannot purchase ammo out of state and transport it back in. Article make a good point that such burdensome regulations raise yet another barrier to people actually hunting.

How does one combat the continued assault on hunting?

Not saying I agree with the law, but a few clarifications are needed, no one seems to be able to get the facts right. I'd bet a few bucks that whatever AH stated for the drop in license sales was at the October cutoff......hence excluding a large amount of waterfowl only hunters.

Yes you need to be a resident.
No you don't have to have a firearm registered you can get a Certificate of Eligibility separately, but firearm purchase and AFS is still easiest.
Yes you can bring ammo in from out of state. My bad, I was wrong on this.

 

[Empire State]

Yes you can bring ammo in from out of state.

AH may have the details wrong. The article quotes "Needless to say, residents may not travel out of state, purchase ammo and return home." Also says that COEs generally are reserved for people who work in the firearms industry.

Honestly I don't know the exact regulations, but in a way, the confusion generated, and even published in an NRA magazine sorta drives the point home. Thankfully right now, no impact on me person ally, but what's the old saying 'as california goes so goes the nation'?

 

[jryoung]

AH may have the details wrong. The article quotes "Needless to say, residents may not travel out of state, purchase ammo and return home." Also says that COEs generally are reserved for people who work in the firearms industry.

AH does have this right, I need to correct that. There was confusion between the De Leon Bill and the Prop 63 (Newsom's Prop) which originally allowed for out of state purchase w/out check.

Navigating California's Ammunition Background Check System

California's ammunition background check system is complicated and has proved difficult for many to navigate. This pages seeks to help people understand the law and how best to buy ammunition legally.

www.calwaterfowl.org

We did have a crazy perfect storm last year though as we started rolling out Real IDs and many renewed by mail which got the dreaded "federal limits apply". It was a nightmare for a lot of people....but I can only wonder how bad it is going to be nationally this fall as so many other limitations for Real IDs hit....namely airline travel.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

Therefore, when we talk about hunting, we should try not to make it sound more difficult, just because it makes us feel better about our accomplishments. This is something I work on myself.

Wait are you saying I dont need to run 100 miles to be able to hunt elk?

But I agree we shouldn't make it seem impossibly difficult. Sure some parts of hunting are hard, often results of stupid decisions, like the "hey maybe there's something in that empty hell hole" and then climbing back out is pretty tough and painful. But hey, as long as you didnt die or get hurt, it was a good day. I think one of the challenges of new hunters is it's kind of overwhelming to learn by yourself when you didnt have a friend or relatives to teach you. I definitely know I wouldn't be hunting if my dad hadn't taught me the basics. Of course there are people that do teach themselves, but going with others sure helps. Not to mention how expensive hunting can get and the decline of positive views of hunting from non hunters. It kind of scares me for the future of hunting.

 

[LopeHunter]

Dozens of reasons big game hunting is seeing a fall in participation. Participation means actually hunting so listing how many applicants there were for 10 non-resident sheep tags is not that useful.

Hunting numbers will fall with each generation, especially big game hunters. Just as Boy Scout participation will fall. We are less rural now that 20 years ago and will be even less rural in 20 more years.

I do not think the top issues are lack of public lands or every F&G trying to race towards the first non-resident $2000 bull elk tag in the West. Costs are up and most rise faster than inflation and earnings. Boy Scouts does not have a cost issue. You can learn to build a fire now just as when I was a Scout. Entertainment options are more exciting for kids and some of us if we are honest as we download the latest game or check social media to read about the debate or what those sirens were last night.

Getting more public lands is a good thing. Saving habitat is a good thing. Protecting migration corridors is a good thing. I just think the bucket has too many leaks to reverse the decline of big game hunters.

I am jealous when read about those of you that head into Montana's Unlimited units to ram hunt. My career and that sort of adventure is not compatible. My age is the other factor even if I retired tomorrow.

I can use my success in my career to go on "Teddy Roosevelt" hunts now where someone else is cooking the food as the day ends, feeding and tending the horses and has a solid plan for where we will be as the sun rises in the morning. No need to pack a skinning knife. I look at how I used to go on solitary squirrel and duck hunts as a kid and then most of my first 20 Western big game hunts were solo or with a family member so success was on our shoulders. Then I try to reconcile that with my current style of big game hunting, er shooting, now and the evolution for me was not driven by cost nor lack of public lands. My body failing me as headed up the mountain ridge a decade ago was the linchpin.

I enjoy seeing critters and not seeing a lot of orange vests at sunrise and I am first to admit most of those public hunters willing to venture a few hundred yards from the trailhead can out-hunt me now so I am looking for ways to stack the deck. The closest I come to my "old" style of hunting is turkey hunting. Solo or with a family member. Easy pack out without wrecking my body. A hunter hunting rather than a shooter shooting. The last critter I will harvest will most likely be a gobbler I have called in in the spring. I am okay with that.

 

[DJH44]

This is why Im a Nevada resident... right on the California border, I walk in, pick out a weapon and ammunition, do a quick background check and LEAVE!!

 

[Empire State]

Wonder how this will even be enforced. Especially when you factor handloading into the equation. Scenario, out of state hunt, returning with leftover handloads. for whatever reason you're stopped. Hey buddy, where' you get all this out of state ammo? Is there a presumption of guilt?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Nobody has said this yet, because you're probably too nice, but maybe my generation is just I'll-equiped to handle failure. We got participation trophies our whole lives and our parents and teachers did their best to make sure we didn't face much adversity. I honestly think hunting is too big a challenge for a lot of younger people. It's too much work for them.

That's why I will tell anybody my spots, I'll take anyone (well almost anyone) hunting, and I'm constantly forcing my friends and relatives to go. I tell anyone who is interested that it is doable, then I tell them how I do it. Maybe if we can stop self-aggrandizing hunting; stop making it sound like only navy seals can do it, then younger folks would be more interested?

Idk, maybe they just need to put cell towers in wilderness areas and install chargers in the trees and WiFi in the rocks!

I like the 2nd paragraph a lot. I think the 1st is too much a stereo type. I look at the efforts of some of my kids, their friends and newer employees and they are busting their butts - sure there are whiny slackers, but we had those back in the 80's too - Spicoli wasn't a fantasy character, he was a way of life My kids and alot of 20-somethings I know work a lot harder than I did at that age.

 

[Empire State]

I can use my success in my career to go on "Teddy Roosevelt" hunts now where someone else is cooking the food as the day ends, feeding and tending the horses and has a solid plan for where we will be as the sun rises in the morning. No need to pack a skinning knife. I look at how I used to go on solitary squirrel and duck hunts as a kid and then most of my first 20 Western big game hunts were solo or with a family member so success was on our shoulders. Then I try to reconcile that with my current style of big game hunting, er shooting, now and the evolution for me was not driven by cost nor lack of public lands. My body failing me as headed up the mountain ridge a decade ago was the linchpin.

I'm leaning to do the same, hire some help. I think of it as buying time. It's what Big Fin says, you'll run out of health before you run out of money. Researching now so I don't get screwed with a bad guide. Had one already go way bad once I started digging into the details.

That said, I did my part today. I went out on public land in NY state, scouting an area that I've never been to, and is public land. Today I didn't carry a rifle, only season open is coyotes so that's ok. Forgot my critter call (oops) or I'd a tried to call something in. Baby steps here in NY, I need to have turkey lands scouted by May, and then more for the fall season.

There are bear here in NY, saw one once just after dark, on a bushwack hike in the catskills. Do I want to shoot a bear? Haven't decided.

 

[lynlan1819]

Utah is actually bucking the trend, slightly but still.

Our #1,2,3 4 problems are access, access, access, $$$$.

Half the access part is the same as everywhere in the West.

The other half in Utah is the $$$ push for more and more CWMU, trophy hunting. As you guys know Utah sold its soul to trophy hunting and big money decades ago(SFW). In doing so we have a continued drum beat of commercial hunting expansion, limited tags to increase age classes. The obvious result is difficulty to include young and new adult hunters into a sport/lifestyle.

Add to that a point scheme which in my state has made sheep, goats, moose, bison completely unachievable. for younger/new hunters. Add to that the fact that if they started today a 12yr old might be lucky to hunt 2 limited entry hunts in their hunting career and it's not hard to see where a huge barrier is.

Fin has talked about it a lot. After access, the discriminatory point schemes may be great for gray hairs, but they are a major issue in recruitment.

This ^ and the fact its more than a few years between drawing tags,guys lose interest after awhile.

 

[lynlan1819]

#millennial
View attachment 128639

With my luck,that ledge would break loose the minute I got on it.

 

[hossblur]

Damn guys, I didn't even know generation bashing was a thing. Did I mention I'm a millennial ha ha?

Like I said, I've noticed a decline in the ability to handle adversity in the population, a product of removing societal obstacles and generally making life easier. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a product of social advancement.

Therefore, when we talk about hunting, we should try not to make it sound more difficult, just because it makes us feel better about our accomplishments. This is something I work on myself.

I think figures like Big Fin are great at this. Randy seems like a guy like you and me, whose passion drives him to accomplish great things with Howa in-hand. He doesn't make it sound like you have to be a certain type of person, you just have to want it.

I appologize for offending my peers.

Generation bashing is a thing.

BUTTTTTTTT.

It isn't the millenials that developed the points scheme. It wasn't millenials that created limited entry, guide tags, CWMU, High fence, etc, etc.

If we are Truly honest. The barriers to entry, and the warped system that has created the have vs have not systems, are a product of the boomers and gen x.

The WWII guys didn't have leisure time and disposable income. Hunting was about food.

The next generation did. And as they got more time and money they made a system that favored having both.

The youngvguys with their flat brims and supplements now are looking at a system that in many regards is the antithesis to the North American Model the gray hairs talk about.

Any kid living in a state where he doesn't have a tag every year, is a kid we lost. And for what? A B&C score. The millenials got screwed. The kids younger, even worse.

It's not a way of life for young folks. Mainly because the older folks MADE IT THAT WAY.

I'm 46, and I approve this message.

 

[Red Fox]

It is not just hunting that has seen a decline, the army is also having trouble recruiting as well. I can see access as more of a problem in the east as less public land. Kids are busier now days and less connected to the outdoors.