Duck-Slayer
Well-known member
Interesting information, a buddy sent this to me: https://ljsp.lwcdn.com/api/video/em...AzeyIPTgMtF4TTDjiGNeiKQ66Mcaywpv9nlqT4cH1sfZI
Matt
Matt
CWD cure???
- Thread starter Duck-Slayer
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8andcounting
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It’s bs . Unfortunately
8andcounting
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You realize that video is from like 7-8 years ago right ?
shoots-straight
Well-known member
It was posted on Feb 4 th 2019 I might add that this is not the information that most scientists go by.
https://www.abc27.com/news/state/hu...h-new-theory-on-fatal-deer-disease/1754680686
https://www.abc27.com/news/state/hu...h-new-theory-on-fatal-deer-disease/1754680686
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Yes, unfortunately it is BS. It is being used by groups who are in the captive cervid operations to discredit efforts states are taking to try manage the disease. A letter was just signed by pretty much every hunting-conservation organization that tries to clarify that there are no quick fixes and there is no known cure.
Too bad some groups want to take a difficult issue like CWD and leverage it to whatever benefit they can.
Duck-Slayer
Well-known member
bmt99
Active member
There is a lot of money right now investigating CWD. My brother (wildlife biologist) told me they are finding out a lot of what doesn't work in treating this or coming up with some type of test, cure, vaccine, etc. Hoof rot also just had confirmed case in Idaho now. CWD, blue tongue and hoof rot are going to meet in the middle.
Sucks that captive operations are trying to discredit any of this. Didn't Minnesota ban these recently?
Sucks that captive operations are trying to discredit any of this. Didn't Minnesota ban these recently?
Sytes
Well-known member
What / why are the captive cervid operations and State operations countering each other. Usually $ is a typical motive for an investigator though while I can *imagine potential $ positions, seems they would work in support of each other.
I understand pumping up the "zombie" type catchy phrases to manipulate the public --> representatives (wonderful lobbyists enter the equation again) for private, state, and federal funding / grants... Though what's the line drawn to cause the discrediting?
Imagine a $1+billion dollar industry for sale of captive cervids being told they will no longer be able to transport across state lines. Imagine telling the captive cervid industry you have to double/triple fence, that you have to agree to inspections for compliance with tagging and testing, that you have to bond and insure, that you have to ........
We all know that shifting these costs/risks back to one of the identified sources of CWD spread is not going to happen without a fight. Until now, they have been able to socialize these costs and risks, while not having to absorb those costs of doing business. Result is higher operating costs to reflect the true costs and risks known at this time.
So, they fight back with money, with legislative friends, with media folks who have made their careers out of shooting captive deer, etc.
Captive operations want to maintain their herds, buy/sell between each other, keep doing whatever they can to make $. States need to maintain wild herd health and viability and make $ off of hunting. They have MUCH more long-term interest than captive operations. The money for states does a better job of correlating to herd health than captive operations - but for sure not 100%.
It's a serious long term issue and always tough to align the $ with serious long term issues.
COEngineer
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BigFin, please don't respond to Sytes, it just encourages him.
Sytes
Well-known member
CO, ignore is a useful function. Try it to dial in those that fit your preference.
MJE2083
Well-known member
As I stated on the other thread, these videos are mostly linked to the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania. Being from PA, I am unfortunately all too familiar with this fringe group of whackos. They're essentially a group of conspiracy theorists that believe that the Pennsylvania Game Commission is intentionally trying to destroy the deer herd throughout the state. They, and others like them, were recently successful in getting the game commission to cancel a planned cull within our CWD disease management area.
Their mission is to set back wildlife management 20 years. They formed in response to new deer management practices that the game commission introduced in the early 2000's. Prior to the early 2000's it was not uncommon to see large herds of deer in PA. 15-20-30 does at a time was the norm, with the occasional 1 1/2 year old buck thrown in. Antler restrictions and increased antlerless allotments have changed all of that (for the better I might add), but the Unified Sportsmen want to turn back the clock to the "good old days" of seeing 40-50 deer per day. Forest health, herd health, age class structure be damned! They simply want more deer.
I do also think that they have some back channel support from the captive cervid industry, but I have no real proof of that. They've latched on to this study because it fits their story line that the game commission is mismanaging the deer herd and is using the CWD threat to further reduce an already depleted herd.
Their mission is to set back wildlife management 20 years. They formed in response to new deer management practices that the game commission introduced in the early 2000's. Prior to the early 2000's it was not uncommon to see large herds of deer in PA. 15-20-30 does at a time was the norm, with the occasional 1 1/2 year old buck thrown in. Antler restrictions and increased antlerless allotments have changed all of that (for the better I might add), but the Unified Sportsmen want to turn back the clock to the "good old days" of seeing 40-50 deer per day. Forest health, herd health, age class structure be damned! They simply want more deer.
I do also think that they have some back channel support from the captive cervid industry, but I have no real proof of that. They've latched on to this study because it fits their story line that the game commission is mismanaging the deer herd and is using the CWD threat to further reduce an already depleted herd.
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A gentleman from the PA chapter of BHA contacted the CWD Alliance (he highly recommends their website if you want CWD info). Here is the response:
Thank you for contacting the CWD Alliance. Over the years, there have been numerous studies exploring the potential role of spiroplasma bacteria in CWD transmission and persistence. At best, that body of research is inconclusive and contradictory. Dr. Bastian’s work and theory’s have yet to be replicated by the scientific community, despite many attempts to do so. That does not mean, however, that spiroplasma or other unknown factors don’t play some role in CWD transmission beyond that of prions. Below is a quick synopsis of some research that provides counter points to Dr. Bastian’s research. Again, please note that all these studies note that more research needs done, and there may be things we are missing.
Research claiming that bacteria are the causative agents of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies has yet to be conclusively reproduced despite rigorous attempts to do so.
In blind studies done by the University of Maryland School of Medicine, samples of brain material infected with scrapie, along with uninfected samples, were searched for Spiroplasma spp. and other common bacteria and bacteria-like structures using Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) amplification (PCR is a method widely used in molecular biology to make many copies of specific DNA segments). Researchers found no evidence that any eubacterium, including Spiroplasma or any other bacteria type, was consistently associated with scrapie-infected brain tissue, thus concluding that the “agent responsible for TSE disease cannot be a spiroplasma or any other eubacterial species.”
Source:
Absence of Spiroplasma or Other Bacterial 16S rRNA Genes in Brain Tissue of Hamsters with Scrapie
Irina Alexeeva, Ellen J. Elliott, Sandra Rollins, Gail E. Gasparich, Jozef Lazar, Robert G. Rohwer
Journal of Clinical Microbiology Jan 2006, 44 (1) 91-97; DOI: 10.1128/JCM.44.1.91-97.2006
An extensive research project completed at Louisiana State University on the potential roles of Spiroplasma in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies found that following inoculation of Spiroplasma mirum into neonatal goats and five month-old white-tailed deer, none of the animals developed clinical signs or pathology seen in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. In this study, the bacteria were introduced to the animals intracerebrally, intravenous, or intradermally. Additionally, researchers conducting this study tested three species of Spiroplasma and found that they were susceptible to minimal dilutions of common laboratory disinfectants as well as heat sterilization of only 250°F for 15 minutes. In a wide array of other studies, samples of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy-infected material treated with similar sterilization methods were shown to remain infectious; thus indicating that other factors not related to bacteria result in the transmission and/or persistence of the disease. *Note: This study was published as a Doctoral dissertation and has yet to be published in a peer reviewed journal.
Source:
French, Hilari Maree, "Characterization of Spiroplasma mirum and its role in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies" (2011).
LSU Doctoral Dissertations. 3012.
Most experimental examinations of TSE-causing agents point to proteins at the infectious agent.
The hallmark study of the prions’ role in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies was conducted by Dr. Stanley Prusiner who demonstrated that after adding enzymes that destroyed DNA and RNA to scrapie-infected brain material, the material remained infections. These enzymes would likely have damaged or destroyed bacteria present in the samples. However, when he adding protein-neutralizing enzymes to the scrapie-infected brain material, it’s infectivity plummeted. Thus, he demonstrated that the causative agent of the disease was most likely protein based, not bacterial-based. It should be noted that Prusiner’s work earned a Nobel Prize due to its rigor and reproducibility by other researchers.
Source:
Prusiner SB. (1982). Novel proteinaceous infectious particles cause scrapie. Science. 9;216(4542):136-44.
Artificially synthesized prions have shown to be capable of causing prion disease.
To rule out the role of unidentified substances as disease causative agents in samples of infectious tissues, researchers successfully created a “clean” synthetic version of the scrapie prion that was capable of infecting mice.
Source:
Legname G, Baskakov IV, Nguyen HB, et al. (2004). Synthetic Mammalian Prions. Science. 7;305:673-676.
Thank you for contacting the CWD Alliance. Over the years, there have been numerous studies exploring the potential role of spiroplasma bacteria in CWD transmission and persistence. At best, that body of research is inconclusive and contradictory. Dr. Bastian’s work and theory’s have yet to be replicated by the scientific community, despite many attempts to do so. That does not mean, however, that spiroplasma or other unknown factors don’t play some role in CWD transmission beyond that of prions. Below is a quick synopsis of some research that provides counter points to Dr. Bastian’s research. Again, please note that all these studies note that more research needs done, and there may be things we are missing.
Research claiming that bacteria are the causative agents of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies has yet to be conclusively reproduced despite rigorous attempts to do so.
In blind studies done by the University of Maryland School of Medicine, samples of brain material infected with scrapie, along with uninfected samples, were searched for Spiroplasma spp. and other common bacteria and bacteria-like structures using Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) amplification (PCR is a method widely used in molecular biology to make many copies of specific DNA segments). Researchers found no evidence that any eubacterium, including Spiroplasma or any other bacteria type, was consistently associated with scrapie-infected brain tissue, thus concluding that the “agent responsible for TSE disease cannot be a spiroplasma or any other eubacterial species.”
Source:
Absence of Spiroplasma or Other Bacterial 16S rRNA Genes in Brain Tissue of Hamsters with Scrapie
Irina Alexeeva, Ellen J. Elliott, Sandra Rollins, Gail E. Gasparich, Jozef Lazar, Robert G. Rohwer
Journal of Clinical Microbiology Jan 2006, 44 (1) 91-97; DOI: 10.1128/JCM.44.1.91-97.2006
An extensive research project completed at Louisiana State University on the potential roles of Spiroplasma in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies found that following inoculation of Spiroplasma mirum into neonatal goats and five month-old white-tailed deer, none of the animals developed clinical signs or pathology seen in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. In this study, the bacteria were introduced to the animals intracerebrally, intravenous, or intradermally. Additionally, researchers conducting this study tested three species of Spiroplasma and found that they were susceptible to minimal dilutions of common laboratory disinfectants as well as heat sterilization of only 250°F for 15 minutes. In a wide array of other studies, samples of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy-infected material treated with similar sterilization methods were shown to remain infectious; thus indicating that other factors not related to bacteria result in the transmission and/or persistence of the disease. *Note: This study was published as a Doctoral dissertation and has yet to be published in a peer reviewed journal.
Source:
French, Hilari Maree, "Characterization of Spiroplasma mirum and its role in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies" (2011).
LSU Doctoral Dissertations. 3012.
Most experimental examinations of TSE-causing agents point to proteins at the infectious agent.
The hallmark study of the prions’ role in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies was conducted by Dr. Stanley Prusiner who demonstrated that after adding enzymes that destroyed DNA and RNA to scrapie-infected brain material, the material remained infections. These enzymes would likely have damaged or destroyed bacteria present in the samples. However, when he adding protein-neutralizing enzymes to the scrapie-infected brain material, it’s infectivity plummeted. Thus, he demonstrated that the causative agent of the disease was most likely protein based, not bacterial-based. It should be noted that Prusiner’s work earned a Nobel Prize due to its rigor and reproducibility by other researchers.
Source:
Prusiner SB. (1982). Novel proteinaceous infectious particles cause scrapie. Science. 9;216(4542):136-44.
Artificially synthesized prions have shown to be capable of causing prion disease.
To rule out the role of unidentified substances as disease causative agents in samples of infectious tissues, researchers successfully created a “clean” synthetic version of the scrapie prion that was capable of infecting mice.
Source:
Legname G, Baskakov IV, Nguyen HB, et al. (2004). Synthetic Mammalian Prions. Science. 7;305:673-676.
In full agreement against the "Unified Sportsmen of PA". They're a special combination of selfish and scientifically illiterate. PA is carrying about double the deer herd that our forests can sustain, because over the past 50-ish years our woods have matured out of the early-succession habitat that provides the most browse. Hardwood regeneration suffers, wildflowers and herbaceous growth in the understory are completely absent in mature woods, and hay-scented fern (which deer won't eat) is taking over everywhere. You can't drive a couple miles down I-80 without seeing a roadkill deer. USP ignores all of that and tries to force the Game Commission and state politicians into cutting antlerless tag allocations just so they can see more deer every time they go out. I would trust nothing they say.
