BrentD
Well-known member
A moral landowner would not give a rat's ass about the pin or corner trespass. He would allow access by the public to their property.
Corner Crossing latest
- Thread starter BuzzH
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mevertsen
Well-known member
Depends on state law of you can fly in to an area where there is no air strip for the i tent of hunting.
DP_PublicLands
Active member
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- Dec 5, 2023
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That's what I'm saying. He'd define is property and not care what happens beyond it - including corner crossing to public land.
I don't agree with your last statement. Its not immoral for a person to not allow public access to their property.
BrentD
Well-known member
I tend to disagree. With your last statement.
You do have a point. But I feel (myself anyway) I would not corner cross if I could not find a marker.
I would assume most hunters would avoid it for fear of one being there they could not locate and then winding up in a six-figure lawsuit.
I am no expert, but I used to work for a surveyor friend on my days off from my regular job.
Land surveys are a matter of historical data and all surveys must be filed at the county courthouse in the locale where they exist.
When a surveyor begins a new survey he (or she) must start from a known point, ie: an existing survey marker or monument.
Some of the older surveys we researched as starting points were actually worded as such: "seventeen paces North of the large boulder at the corner of -______. (As an example)
Those survey markers/points ARE what the law must go buy if that is the registered historical data point.
Many, many fences are not on property lines due to uneven terrain, waterways, or even inethical landowners.
Onx obtains their property lines and corners from the local county courthouse's written historical records, thus if there is a mistake in identifying a corner properly it would either fall on Onx or the county recorder as being negligent in accurate data entry or preservation. In wither case one would hope they have proper protections or insurance in such cases.
This is just from my 10,000' view and I am not a land lawyer or legal expert... but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn once.
You must not live out in a Western state where landowners own 4500 acres but control 63,000 due to "landlocked" public lands.
They buy and sell these properties as "non-deeded attached lands", they graze on them, they recreate on them and they outfit hunts on them for a profit.
They pay zero taxes on the public they use as their own, but may be required to pay $1.80 per year per cow/calf pair to graze it.
With a gig like this, the moral compass often becomes "non-magnetic" so-to-speak.
Unless they catch you in the "island" section and watch you cross back
BuzzH
Well-known member
Sounds like a lot of nonsense...keep hiding under the bed, I'm crossing corners.
Amen brother!!!!
BrentD
Well-known member
We were talking about the moral landowner, not the immoral landowner that lacks a moral compass.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
BrentD
Well-known member
Whatever. I imagine there's a lot of different ways to look at it and a lot of different rich ranchers to consider. Let's see how it goes from here. How many pins disappear? How many confrontations there are? How many people will actually cross corners this year?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
If I was in WY and found a spot that fit the necessary definition, I would cross. If I was in MT, probably not, but it would depend on my mood. I would probably play in my head the conversation with my wife.LOL
I’m likely burning a big slug of antelope points this year. If the opportunity to corner cross presents itself and is beneficial, I’m doing it, visible corner marker or not. Unless it’s blatant trespassing, a prosecutor would have to be nuts to expend the resources required to prove you didn’t cross at the corner if the monument is missing. It’s simply not something I’d be concerned about.
Just a couple thoughts. An undisturbed BLM or General Land Office monument will hold up as the corner 99.99% of the time. A monument set by a licensed surveyor will be nearly as good.
OnX and all other mapping software uses data provided by the BLM. It is a great tool, but it is not a exact representation of corner. Some are closer than others. Remember some of these corners were set in 1880 and have not been revisited since, some were set in a resurvey by the BLM im 2023. The mobile mapping software reflects this huge range of time and techonolgy in how closely it represents the actual location of the corner.
OnX and all other mapping software uses data provided by the BLM. It is a great tool, but it is not a exact representation of corner. Some are closer than others. Remember some of these corners were set in 1880 and have not been revisited since, some were set in a resurvey by the BLM im 2023. The mobile mapping software reflects this huge range of time and techonolgy in how closely it represents the actual location of the corner.
seeth07
Well-known member
My Wyoming app for antelope this year is for sure changing based on this ruling
FWIW and I know it’s not relevant to the 10th. I have a friend in MT that is a Game Warden and he’s told me they use OnX in the field to determine property boundaries in the field. He said it’s the fastest and most relevant tool they have to try and settle things quickly.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
You guys are way over thinking this and I’ll guarantee the vast majority of hunters aren’t confirming a survey pin. They are going to walk up to a fence corner and hop over it.
Justabirdwatcher
Well-known member
Depends on what you mean when you say "Their." The public is entitled to access their property (public land) through a legal means. Private citizens do not have the right to interfere, although all across the west, they routinely do because of their greed and sense of entitlement. Every single county road intersection in SE New Mexico in the 90's was littered with "no trespassing" "keep out" "private property" signs on the shoulders everywhere that private land bordered BLM. The signs were technically on private land within inches of the BLM, but it gave a person traveling the public road the impression that they were entering private land when in fact they were entering BLM. It was an obvious strategy to try and privatize hundreds of thousands of acres of public land, and it usually worked. I knew one landowner that was surrounded by BLM who would routinely go into hunter's camps while they were away and pour out all their water. This was a solid hour's drive on rough gravel roads from the nearest water supply. Finally I convinced a state game warden to do something about it, but you could tell he really didn't want to. Every day of hunting BLM land in SE New Mexico led to an uncomfortable interaction with a local landowner who usually insisted that the BLM land you were standing on was their private ranch. It was sickening to see these same people who would lie and intimidate anyone who came near their place, show up in church on Sunday and act like the 13th apostle of Christ. And of course, they would all take turns as county commissioners to make sure "the order" was held in place.
It's about time the laws have started to work the way they always should have in the first place. Maybe it will convince some of these landowners to exchanged locked up parcels with some of their lands to consolidate their holdings. One can always dream.
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