Copper bullets

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

I took my friend out yesterday, found him a red deer hind, broadside at 200 yards.
I positive 'thwack' was heard but off it ran into the woods.
At the shot site a small amount of hair and very little blood, the blood trail stopped after 30 yards then no sign of her, she too a lot of finding but eventually I located her around 200 yards away, where she died, in my opinion, she must have suffered a long time before expiring, no blood trail to her final position but basically sprayed blood in her last moments everywhere.
On inspection the bullet made a neat little hole one side to the other with any noticeable expansion.
130 grain out of a .308 at 3050'/sec
Is that normal?
If so I'm sticking to soft points.
Cheers
Richard

Depends what you were using, for anything less than a red stag in size, and really it's ideal for reds, use the tipped tsx. Hollow point version isn't forgiving if you don't hit bone on small animals.

I've used barnes for nearly a decade and only lost one animal, shot a fallow doe too far back and it penciled through her. Hit properly things die, and quickly.

 

[devon deer]

Depends what you were using, for anything less than a red stag in size, and really it's ideal for reds, use the tipped tsx. Hollow point version isn't forgiving if you don't hit bone on small animals.

I've used barnes for nearly a decade and only lost one animal, shot a fallow doe too far back and it penciled through her. Hit properly things die, and quickly.

I'm not sure what bullet it was, he said GS made in Africa?
My mate uses Barnes and really rates them.
But for me, until I'm told not to, it's soft points for me.
Cheers
Richard

 

[Dougfirtree]

My son and I shot two doe antelope with 150 TTSX's from a .308 win, this fall. I had loaded them down, too, so velocity on impact was only around 2400 on his and about 2200 on mine. Had noticable larger exits on both. Both dropped quickly. I've had good experiences with Barnes bullets and in my experience, they're actually more likley to drop animals on the spot, than regular soft points. For what it's worth..

 

[ImBillT]

I took my friend out yesterday, found him a red deer hind, broadside at 200 yards.
I positive 'thwack' was heard but off it ran into the woods.
At the shot site a small amount of hair and very little blood, the blood trail stopped after 30 yards then no sign of her, she too a lot of finding but eventually I located her around 200 yards away, where she died, in my opinion, she must have suffered a long time before expiring, no blood trail to her final position but basically sprayed blood in her last moments everywhere.
On inspection the bullet made a neat little hole one side to the other with any noticeable expansion.
130 grain out of a .308 at 3050'/sec
Is that normal?
If so I'm sticking to soft points.
Cheers
Richard

I’m not aware of any monos that do the amount of internal destruction that conventional expanding bullets do. They penetrate better though. It’s a trade off.

 

[mtmuley]

I’m not aware of any monos that do the amount of internal destruction that conventional expanding bullets do. They penetrate better though. It’s a trade off.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...ts-terminal-performance-picture-heavy.218288/ Plenty of internal damage here. mtmuley

 

[VikingsGuy]

I’m not aware of any monos that do the amount of internal destruction that conventional expanding bullets do. They penetrate better though. It’s a trade off.

In the 15 or so animals killed with TTSX, the lung areas have looked like they have been run through a blender, very little blood shot meat and no animal has gone far. Pre-copper my corelokts generated more blood shot meat and despite bigger exit wounds had several "run-offs" that were tough to find, but can't say they did any more to the vitals. Dead is dead in my book.

 

[devon deer]

Dead is dead in my book.

Very true, but anything we as hunters can do with the tools available to hasten than death is what I strive to achieve, we owe it to the animal we hunt
Cheers
Richard

 

[ImBillT]

https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...ts-terminal-performance-picture-heavy.218288/ Plenty of internal damage here. mtmuley

I didn’t see any huge messes on the first page. How bout I rephrase it? Monolithic bullets are not generally capable of achieving the degree of internal destruction of the of most explosive conventional bullets. There may be some out there. Is that better?

Not everyone wants the same degree of frangibility. Penetration has its advantages. Violent expansion has its advantages. Balancing the two is ideal. Monos, as far as I can tell, even skimming your thread, do not reach the extreme end of the explosive side. Not everyone wants the extreme end of the explosive side. Any bullet that gets toward the extreme end of the penetration side gives up some explosiveness regardless of what it was made of. Any bullet on the extreme end of the explosive side gives up some penetration regardless of what it’s made of. A great way to get plenty of both is shoot larger bullets faster. That’s why big magnums work a lot better than a .222 Rem.

Feel free to Hammer away. I’m sure they’re excellent. I’m not anti-mono, I’m not anti-Hammer, and Hammers may be the best mono, as well as the most destructive mono. I didn’t see anything on the first page of your thread that resembled the mess the bullets that I’ve been using make. Not everyone wants that mess. I try to keep that mess inside the chest cavity to limit meat loss.

 

[ImBillT]

In the 15 or so animals killed with TTSX, the lung areas have looked like they have been run through a blender, very little blood shot meat and no animal has gone far. Pre-copper my corelokts generated more blood shot meat and despite bigger exit wounds had several "run-offs" that were tough to find, but can't say they did any more to the vitals. Dead is dead in my book.

Other than a gut shot elk, I haven’t had an animal take one single step since I switched to what I shoot. Forget about “gone far”. The elk didn’t go far, on a gut shot, and with what is considered by most to be not enough gun.

Dispite what many will say CoreLokts stink. They are a bit inconsistent.

If an animal is going to move from where it was hit, an exit wound is a huge advantage. Mono’s give you that most of the time. I haven’t had that issue yet with what I’ve been using, although I did once with a Nosler Solid Base that was a bit small for the job. If I ever do have that issue with what I’ve been shooting recently, I’ll be wishing for an exit wound. So far, I’ve been very thankful to have absolutely zero need for a blood trail, or clear viewing of any distance an animal could travel.

I’m not against anyone using a mono. There are a lot of way to kill an animal, and monos have their advantages.

 

[mtmuley]

Just an option Bill. Thanks for the education. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

Just an option Bill. Thanks for the education. mtmuley

I never said it wasn’t an option. I told a guy that had an animal run after a double lung with a mono, that I wasn’t aware of a mono that is as destructive destructive as lead bullets can be. When you use bullet construction to go toward more expansion, you go away from more penetration and the opposite is also true.

 

[HandgunHunter]

I’m even working on making the switch to lead free in the wheelguns.

100 yards just resting the butt on a small field bad. It’s pretty nippy today and it was causing me some issues with being consistent on the trigger....I’m pretty sure that’s where all the left to right is coming from.

 

[1eyedshooter]

I seen a deer shot with a 80gr Barnes out of a 243, I never seen a deer go down so fast, the shot was at 125yrds !!!

 

[antelopedundee]

I'd be inclined to use the Barnes LRX for the simple reason that at 127 grains they are nearly identical to the 129s/130s I've used for years.

 

[sbhooper]

Other than a gut shot elk, I haven’t had an animal take one single step since I switched to what I shoot. Forget about “gone far”. The elk didn’t go far, on a gut shot, and with what is considered by most to be not enough gun.

Dispite what many will say CoreLokts stink. They are a bit inconsistent.

If an animal is going to move from where it was hit, an exit wound is a huge advantage. Mono’s give you that most of the time. I haven’t had that issue yet with what I’ve been using, although I did once with a Nosler Solid Base that was a bit small for the job. If I ever do have that issue with what I’ve been shooting recently, I’ll be wishing for an exit wound. So far, I’ve been very thankful to have absolutely zero need for a blood trail, or clear viewing of any distance an animal could travel.

I’m not against anyone using a mono. There are a lot of way to kill an animal, and monos have their advantages.

I am by no means anti-mono bullets, but at the price that Hammers cost, there is no way that I would use them. I have limited experience with monos, but they worked well. I don't get all the conversation about meat damage. There is not much meat on ribs and even the shoulders of a deer. Get them on the ground and then worry about it. I shot several big mulie does through the shoulders this season using standard bullets in .30 and .264 and never totally destroyed any of them. Moot point, really, as far as I am concerned.
The placement of whatever bullet you use, is way more important to drt, than the style of the bullet. Both standard c and c bullets and monos have come a long way in dependability. The monos have a slight edge for total penetration, but not enough to care, unless maybe you are shooting grizzlies. 90 percent of what people kill, is easily handled with either style of bullet.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I am by no means anti-mono bullets, but at the price that Hammers cost, there is no way that I would use them.

Read this and then was curious, hammers cost to the dollar the same as the lead bullets I was shooting before... so I dk

Seems like that is more of a do you prefer to hunt with premium ammo or cheap stuff.

Personally after the amount of time and money I spend on hunts I'm not going to fuss about whether my bullet cost .50 cents or $1.

That said I don't use those at the range and I'm not shooting 15 whitetails a year like some guys back east, so I fully respect if at volume the cost makes a huge difference for you.

 

[ImBillT]

If I was going to switch to monos, which I actually may in my wife’s .243Win, I would definitely consider Hammers. They are priced considerably on the high side, but I could hopefully use no more than a single box for the first season, with likely many seasons before finishing the second box.

If her .243 had a tighter twist, I’m confident that I would be happy with 105gr bullets, but in the 85gr range, extra penetration is required for anything bigger than whitetails. While I’m exceptionally happy with the results I’ve been getting from Bergers in my 6.5 and .30 cals, I’m not confident that 87gr is enough for a mule deer in that bullet type. I’m going to see if I can get some heavier partitions to shoot well. I had a box of some very early ones that just wouldn’t shoot well. I eventually decided that switching die sets may actually have been the problem. If I can’t get partitions to group the way the gun grouped with Solid Bases, then I’ll probably try a few monos.

 

[sbhooper]

If I was going to switch to monos, which I actually may in my wife’s .243Win, I would definitely consider Hammers. They are priced considerably on the high side, but I could hopefully use no more than a single box for the first season, with likely many seasons before finishing the second box.

If her .243 had a tighter twist, I’m confident that I would be happy with 105gr bullets, but in the 85gr range, extra penetration is required for anything bigger than whitetails. While I’m exceptionally happy with the results I’ve been getting from Bergers in my 6.5 and .30 cals, I’m not confident that 87gr is enough for a mule deer in that bullet type. I’m going to see if I can get some heavier partitions to shoot well. I had a box of some very early ones that just wouldn’t shoot well. I eventually decided that switching die sets may actually have been the problem. If I can’t get partitions to group the way the gun grouped with Solid Bases, then I’ll probably try a few monos.

Light monos would be great in the .243, because of the length (without having a tighter-twist barrel). Push them fast and they will work very well. I would go with Barnes, just for the price, but stay on the light side with any of them and they will work. Also, try the Accubombs in 100-grain. They should shoot well and give you plenty of penetration.

 

[cahunter805]

If I was going to switch to monos, which I actually may in my wife’s .243Win, I would definitely consider Hammers. They are priced considerably on the high side, but I could hopefully use no more than a single box for the first season, with likely many seasons before finishing the second box.

If her .243 had a tighter twist, I’m confident that I would be happy with 105gr bullets, but in the 85gr range, extra penetration is required for anything bigger than whitetails. While I’m exceptionally happy with the results I’ve been getting from Bergers in my 6.5 and .30 cals, I’m not confident that 87gr is enough for a mule deer in that bullet type. I’m going to see if I can get some heavier partitions to shoot well. I had a box of some very early ones that just wouldn’t shoot well. I eventually decided that switching die sets may actually have been the problem. If I can’t get partitions to group the way the gun grouped with Solid Bases, then I’ll probably try a few monos.

What twist is your wife’s 243?
The 95gr Berger Classic hunter works well in even a 10 twist. The 95VLD should stabilize in most also depending on your elevation. Both are pretty lethal on mule deer.
Also the 105gr Hornady HPBT is another choice that works awesome even in a 10 twist.

 

[bushman13]

In a general sense, a whitetail size animal would not benefit from a hard cast or mono. Something like a Core-lokt that disperses all of its energy within the size of the animal is more effective. The discussion arises because we now know of the lead particulate left behind. So do you want the most effective or food safe? If you do go with mono's for smaller animals, luckily the game has changed and mushrooming type features are being built in to copper bullets.

For elk sized animals, penetration is king, therefore a mono makes a ton of sense.