I have just been listening to episode 21. Randy and guests made a number of claims to withdraw support for environmentalism as it is not conservation. While I can understand frustration with so called environmental groups trying to promote "no-use" over "wise-use" I think throwing all environmentalism group(s) in as preservationists not to be trusted is short sighted. People forget that the American West is vastly different from the rest of the U.S. In MN we share Randys frustrations with environmental groups fighting for ESA protection of grey wolves, but unlike the west most of the Midwestern states do not have vast tracks of public lands. The rest of our private land is being utilized for the purpose of intensive agriculture or other industries. Much of MN is not pristine wilderness and public lands. The SW portion is nearly all row crop agriculture. Hunters, public lands, wildlife, water and soils have all been depleted because of it. If you had to define environmental groups in MN you would probably say they work to protect all natural resources and not just fighting to remove human's from the resource use. They are not all preservationists disguised as conservationists. If we did not have environmental groups fighting for protection of all natural resources, MN would be in a much worse position for those resources including wildlife.