Colorado gun ban

[Maverick1]

First two points are pretty easy to pick apart by looking at numbers… hyper masculine part isn’t a great argument… the not suited to hunting or sporting purposes is an awful argument as well. Lots of holes in this

Can you provide the numbers (data) and sources that support your post regarding the first two points?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Can you provide the numbers (data) and sources that support your post regarding the first two points?

Hey Mav, give me a minute to dig up the specifics. But like all public health scares. Let’s look at the states total population and the figure out the number of victims per year on an average basis. Let’s exclude gang crime or drug dealing crimes, I’m guessing you will have a better chance on getting stuck by lighting hiking mt evans than dying via the gun violence epidemic

Here are stats off the state page: Colorado has experienced 61 mass shootings in the last 10 years with 328 people shot, resulting in 82 killed and 246 injured (Zeoli et al, 2022). So let’s now look at population averages for the state for the same time period: then we can take the total population and the number of victims, I’ll add wounded to murdered to make the number as large as possible and we should have our rough estimate of chances of being involved in a mass shooting. But then we have to further divide that by 10…

So 2010 we were 5 million pop now we are 5.8, so let’s split it and say 5.4 million. So 328 into 5.4 million. Gives us a result of .00000019 now we can divide that by number of years to find out yearly average possibility of being in an event. So .000000002 yearly odds of being involved in a mass shooting and this does not take into account gang violence so we can probably further reduce that number. But we will leave it there so we aren’t splitting hairs.

Now let’s look up odds of being struck by lightning. State page says 2 killed and 12 injured a year. So over 10 years 20 killed and 120 injured. So clearly, your odds of being killed by lightning or a mass shooting are fairly close, being wounded by a mass shooting is about twice of being wounded by lighting… and now we can form a bill to stop the public epidemic of deadly lightning strikes!

 

[Ben Lamb]

Hey Mav, give me a minute to dig up the specifics. But like all public health scares. Let’s look at the states total population and the figure out the number of victims per year on an average basis. Let’s exclude gang crime or drug dealing crimes, I’m guessing you will have a better chance on getting stuck by lighting hiking mt evans than dying via the gun violence epidemic

Here are stats off the state page: Colorado has experienced 61 mass shootings in the last 10 years with 328 people shot, resulting in 82 killed and 246 injured (Zeoli et al, 2022). So let’s now look at population averages for the state for the same time period: then we can take the total population and the number of victims, I’ll add wounded to murdered to make the number as large as possible and we should have our rough estimate of chances of being involved in a mass shooting. But then we have to further divide that by 10…

Downplaying the loss of life to mass shootings is not a winning strategy, FYI.

Gun owners come across as callous and not respectful of human life.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Downplaying the loss of life to mass shootings is not a winning strategy, FYI.

Gun owners come across as callous and not respectful of human life.

Hey Ben, as someone who has used guns to defend this country and now works as a first responder to help save those who have been shot, which I have been on many of. Some of my good friends were at the Aurora Theatre shooting as police and fire. I am no stranger to the horrors of firearm violence. I am intimately knowledgeable. Maybe it does make me a little calloused. Every loss of life is a tragedy. That said I think we cannot use hyperbolic comparisons and gross overstatements to push agendas. Is gun violence an issue. Absolutely is it an epidemic or a pandemic. No. Now is type 2 diabetes an epidemic? Yes. Is distracted driving and epidemic? Yes. Is heart disease an epidemic? Yes. Call a spade a spade. Do not use emotion to pass something that does nothing to prevent the horrible tragedy of gun violence…

 

[Ben Lamb]

Hey Ben, as someone who has used guns to defend this country and now works as a first responder to help save those who have been shot, which I have been on many of. Some of my good friends were at the Aurora Theatre shooting as police and fire. I am no stranger to the horrors of firearm violence. I am intimately knowledgeable. Maybe it does make me a little calloused. Every loss of life is a tragedy. That said I think we cannot use hyperbolic comparisons and gross overstatements to push agendas. Is gun violence an issue. Absolutely is it an epidemic or a pandemic. No. Now is type 2 diabetes an epidemic? Yes. Is distracted driving and epidemic? Yes. Is heart disease an epidemic? Yes. Call a spade a spade. Do not use emotion to pass something that does nothing to prevent the horrible tragedy of gun violence…

This isn't really a debate about facts or your experience. It's a debate about emotional response to mass trauma by the public and politicians grabbing that to use as weapon. The perspective of those pushing the concept given the current political climate in CO is far more important than how pro-gun people feel. Without understanding their perspective, you won't get to the place that kills the bill.

If we speak a language that is easily dismissed as being callous or ignoring the tragedy faced by others, we lose the fight.

I would say that perhaps your career choices have made you callous, which you'd have to be in order to survive. That's not a condemnation of you by any means, just a recognition that your perspective isn't likely close to those who outside of that line of work. Thanks for your service, it is deeply appreciated.

 

[Red Fox]

Which part or parts are incorrect?

• MASS SHOOTINGS ARE A SIGNIFICANT COMPONENT OF THE DISTINCTLY AMERICAN EPIDEMIC OF GUN VIOLENCE
• GUN VIOLENCE OF ALL TYPES ARE AN ONGOING AND GROWING THREAT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY OF ALL COLORADANS
• IN RECENT YEARS, AMERICANS HAVE ENDURED AN UNFATHOMABLE AVERAGE OF MORE THAN ONE MASS SHOOTING PER DAY
• CONSISTENTLY, THE DEADLIEST MASS SHOOTING INCIDENTS IN THE UNITED STATES INVOLVED THE USE OF ASSAULT WEAPONS OR HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES
• EVEN AS COLORADO HAS UNDERTAKEN CONCERTED COMMON15 SENSE EFFORTS TO DECREASE GUN VIOLENCE,COLORADO HAS STILL BEEN THE LOCATION OF SEVERAL MASS SHOOTINGS PERPETRATED WITH AN ASSAULT WEAPON
• WELL-KNOWN PLACES THAT SHOULD HAVE ONLY EVER BEEN KNOWN AS SITES SAFE FOR JOY, LEARNING, COMMERCE, AND CARE ARE INSTEAD FOREVER ASSOCIATED WITH TRAGEDY OF MASS SHOOTINGS PERPETRATED BY WEAPONS WHICH SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE FOR USE
• ASSAULT WEAPONS AND HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY USED IN PUBLIC MASS SHOOTINGS,
• THE TACTICAL FEATURES ON ASSAULT WEAPONS ARE NOT MERELY COSMETIC, AND THEY ARE NOT MINOR. THEY DIFFERENTIATE ASSAULT WEAPONS FROM OTHER FIREARMS BY ALLOWING A SHOOTER TO BETTER CONCEAL WEAPONS, MAKE IT EASIER TO FIRE A HIGH VOLUME OF AMMUNITION IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME WHILE MAINTAINING ACCURACY, MAXIMIZING CATASTROPHIC INJURY, AND PROVIDING EASE OF USE FOR LESS THAN EXPERT USERS.
• ASSAULT WEAPONS ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR SELF DEFENSE AND ARE NOT WELL-SUITED FOR HUNTING, SPORTING, OR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN MASS KILLING;
• THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY HAS SPECIFICALLY MARKETED ASSAULT WEAPONS AS TACTICAL, HYPER MASCULINE, AND MILITARY STYLE IN A MANNER THAT OVERTLY APPEALS TO THE VERY PEOPLE MOST LIKELY TO ACQUIRE SUCH WEAPONS AS A MEANS TO GAIN INFAMY AS A MASS SHOOTER;
• IT IS CRITICAL TO LIMIT THE PROSPECTIVE SALE OF ASSAULT WEAPONS AND ACCESSORIES, WHILE PERMITTING EXISTING LEGAL OWNERS TO RETAIN THE ASSAULT WEAPONS THEY CURRENTLY OWN
• BANNING ASSAULT WEAPONS LEADS TO A DROP IN MASS SHOOTINGS AND GUN MASSACRES. IN THE TEN YEARS THAT ASSAULT5 WEAPONS WERE LIMITED BY A FEDERAL BAN, GUN MASSACRES DROPPED DRASTICALLY, BY AT LEAST THIRTY-SEVEN PERCENT.CONVERSELY, AFTER THE FEDERAL ASSAULT WEAPON BAN EXPIRED IN 2004, GUN MASSACRES SKYROCKETED BY APPROXIMATELY ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY-THREE PERCENT.
• FEDERAL PROHIBITIONS ARE NOT ALONE IN CURTAILING MASS SHOOTINGS. INDEED, STATE PROHIBITIONS OF ASSAULT WEAPONS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH A LOWER LIKELIHOOD OF A MASS SHOOTING EVENT, LOWER LIKELIHOOD OF DEATH DUE TO A MASS SHOOTING EVENT, AND LOWER GUN DEATH RATES OVERALL
• THEREFORE, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DETERMINES THAT A BAN ON KNOWINGLY MANUFACTURING, IMPORTING, PURCHASING, SELLING, OFFERING TO SELL, OR TRANSFERRING OWNERSHIP OF AN ASSAULT WEAPON, CAUSING THE MANUFACTURE, IMPORTATION, PURCHASE, SALE, OFFER TO SELL, OR TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP OF ASSAULT WEAPONS IN COLORADO IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CITIZENS AND GUESTS OF OUR GREAT STATE

-MASS SHOOTINGS ARE A SIGNIFICANT COMPONENT OF THE DISTINCTLY AMERICAN EPIDEMIC OF GUN VIOLENCE.
The us ranks 11th in the world when looking at violent gun deaths worldwide. 1. El Salvador, 2. Venezuela, 3. Guatemala, 4. Colombia, 5. Brazil, 6. Bahamas, 7. Honduras, 8. Mexico, 9. Belize, 10. Trinidad and Tobago.
If you just want to talk about Mass shootings. The average annual death rate per million people from mass public shootings.1. Norway, 2. Serbia, 3. France, 4. Albania, 5. Solvakia, 6. Switzerland, 7. Finland, 8. Belgium, 9. Czech Republic, 10. United States

 

[Hnthrdr]

This isn't really a debate about facts or your experience. It's a debate about emotional response to mass trauma by the public and politicians grabbing that to use as weapon. The perspective of those pushing the concept given the current political climate in CO is far more important than how pro-gun people feel. Without understanding their perspective, you won't get to the place that kills the bill.

If we speak a language that is easily dismissed as being callous or ignoring the tragedy faced by others, we lose the fight.

I would say that perhaps your career choices have made you callous, which you'd have to be in order to survive. That's not a condemnation of you by any means, just a recognition that your perspective isn't likely close to those who outside of that line of work. Thanks for your service, it is deeply appreciated.

For sure I won’t disagree with you there. I will say I was answering some questions maverick posed. Not trying to discount the horror that is the loss of life.

 

[elkduds]

Hey Mav, give me a minute to dig up the specifics. But like all public health scares. Let’s look at the states total population and the figure out the number of victims per year on an average basis. Let’s exclude gang crime or drug dealing crimes, I’m guessing you will have a better chance on getting stuck by lighting hiking mt evans than dying via the gun violence epidemic

Here are stats off the state page: Colorado has experienced 61 mass shootings in the last 10 years with 328 people shot, resulting in 82 killed and 246 injured (Zeoli et al, 2022). So let’s now look at population averages for the state for the same time period: then we can take the total population and the number of victims, I’ll add wounded to murdered to make the number as large as possible and we should have our rough estimate of chances of being involved in a mass shooting. But then we have to further divide that by 10…

So 2010 we were 5 million pop now we are 5.8, so let’s split it and say 5.4 million. So 328 into 5.4 million. Gives us a result of .00000019 now we can divide that by number of years to find out yearly average possibility of being in an event. So .000000002 yearly odds of being involved in a mass shooting and this does not take into account gang violence so we can probably further reduce that number. But we will leave it there so we aren’t splitting hairs.

Now let’s look up odds of being struck by lightning. State page says 2 killed and 12 injured a year. So over 10 years 20 killed and 120 injured. So clearly, your odds of being killed by lightning or a mass shooting are fairly close, being wounded by a mass shooting is about twice of being wounded by lighting… and now we can form a bill to stop the public epidemic of deadly lightning strikes!

Mt. Evans? You meant Blue Sky?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Mt. Evans? You meant Blue Sky?

ah yes, I am sorry my white privileged mind blinded me to the name change. I will now sit in silence and reflect upon my dead naming of the mountain…

 

[marksjeep]

Concealed carry training revamp passed out of committee along party lines.

The liability insurance bill has a carve out if you cannot afford insurance. The bill permits a person who was denied firearm liability insurance by 2 or more insurers or a person who is indigent and cannot afford the insurance to petition a court for an order declaring that the person is excused from the firearm liability insurance requirement.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Concealed carry training revamp passed out of committee along party lines.

The liability insurance bill has a carve out if you cannot afford insurance. The bill permits a person who was denied firearm liability insurance by 2 or more insurers or a person who is indigent and cannot afford the insurance to petition a court for an order declaring that the person is excused from the firearm liability insurance requirement.

Saw that carve out, still utter BS, don’t see it being able to stand up in court, but then again sometimes these judges surprise me

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Call a spade a spade.

 

[Nick87]

View attachment 315683

If you'd of followed the headlines you'd sure think that the respiratory line would have spiked in 2020 even for children.

 

[Hnthrdr]

View attachment 315683

That is per 100,000. Country wide, if anything this is a PSA for gun safes and teaching firearm safety, let’s see stats for gun violence deaths country wide for the epidemic. A follow on: what will further resections on law abiding citizens do to end mass shootings?

 

[elkduds]

View attachment 315683

If Wllm was here he would emphasize that the graph shows all other causes except suffocation and drug OD in decline or relative stability. The increase in deaths from guns is even more pronounced than overdoses, which is universally recognized as a public health crisis. So from a statistical perspective, youth firearm deaths and injuries are a bona fide public health crisis.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I think what a lot of responsible gun owners struggle with is the effectiveness of many of these proposed gun bills in making people any safer. How does gun liability insurance make us safer? Are most firearm death related to CCW holders? How does firearm merchant codes reduce gun violence? These all seem like efforts to make gun ownership more difficult and target legal gun owners? Colorado already has universal background checks, magazine capacity limits and increased red flag laws. Why not assess the effectiveness of those measures before launching another round of gun control bills? As far as the “assault weapons” ban, most likely won’t make it far. Got killed in committee last go round. These bills are about political grandstanding to progressive activists.

 

[Hnthrdr]

If Wllm was here he would emphasize that the graph shows all other causes except suffocation and drug OD in decline or relative stability. The increase in deaths from guns is even more pronounced than overdoses, which is universally recognized as a public health crisis. So from a statistical perspective, youth firearm deaths and injuries are a bona fide public health crisis.

Yep we are talking about a bill that is tackling “mass shooting epidemic” so not youth firearm related deaths, which as they may have a tiny bit of overlap are most likely largely unrelated, especially if we account for accidents, gang violence, suicide ect…

 

[elkduds]

Yep we are talking about a bill that is tackling “mass shooting epidemic” so not youth firearm related deaths, which as they may have a tiny bit of overlap are most likely largely unrelated, especially if we account for accidents, gang violence, suicide ect…

Expect to hear the argument w data that prevalence/availability of guns is a common contributor to mass shootings and youth firearm casualties. And around we go.

 

[Moserkr]

Coming next to CO... just introduced last night in CA. A little Valentine's Day F your freedom.

Bill Would Require Yearly Firearm Registration, Fines for Non-Compliance :: Guns.com

A California Democrat has filed legislation that would enact a mandatory annual gun census among the state's 13 million legal firearms owners.

www.guns.com

 

[Hnthrdr]

Expect to hear the argument w data that prevalence/availability of guns is a common contributor to mass shootings and youth firearm casualties. And around we go.

Let’s see the data in colorado of youth firearm casualties directly related to a mass shooter and not involving gang members. For the last 10-20-30 years and then we can talk. Is losing a child or any family a giant tragedy yes. It is awful. I can’t imagine what I would do, but it does not give anyone the right to usurp or take away my rights or anyone else’s. Also when a a fraction of a fraction of a fraction are affected it is not an epidemic…