Caribou Hunting Ban?

[Bambistew]

Tyler did a good job on this article. Anyone that wishes to hunt in Alaska at any point in the future should take heed, and should also send in a comment. This type of closure could happen on any federal land here... And did just a few years ago in unit 23, but they opened it back up. With the new administration (and appointments to the subsistence board), I'd be very surprised if this doesn't pass.

What it will do is push hunters to other areas and create conflicts again, and again. There is zero reason to close this down, other than they can and they're selfish #$*ks.

Please take 5 min and write up a message and send it off.

The Proposed Closures of Caribou Hunting on Some Federal Lands Isn't Based on Population Declines—It's About Human Conflicts

The proposal would close some Alasaka federal lands to moose and caribou hunting for hunters who aren’t "qualified subsistence users."

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[Kearnsie14]

Do you guys know how to submit a written comment to the DOI regarding this proposal? I tried to do so but it looks like the DOI notice only gives the option of oral commentary during the hearing itself.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Maybe Montana will follow suite. JK, but I can imagine some frustration if I was living a subsistence lifestyle out in the middle of the nowhere Alaska and a plane flew in to my hunting area with a group of guys that just paid a bunch of money to come shoot a moose or caribou.

I don’t know if this is what they are trying to prevent or not though.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Hard to believe the populations are tanking when the natives are running them down in boats and popping them in the head all over the place...
"Necessary survival hunting" I love it meanwhile they are running things down with snowmobiles and boats with rifles.
The guys paying an outfitting service to shoot few of the bulls out of the herd is nothing compared to what these people are doing...

 

[RobertD]

Maybe Montana will follow suite. JK, but I can imagine some frustration if I was living a subsistence lifestyle out in the middle of the nowhere Alaska and a plane flew in to my hunting area with a group of guys that just paid a bunch of money to come shoot a moose or caribou.

I don’t know if this is what they are trying to prevent or not though.

It's not. A couple other users have shed good light on the silliness of any claims made by those in favor of this ban in another thread here.

No non-subsistence Alaskan Caribou or moose this fall in two units

Long story short: “Federal public lands are closed to the harvest of caribou and moose from August 1 through September 30, 2021, except by Federally qualified subsistence users hunting under these regulations." This specifically would apply to units 23 and 26A. Information on the hearing is...

www.hunttalk.com

@wllm1313 and @Bambistew comments in particular

 

[Kearnsie14]

I ended up emailing the person from the Office of Subsistence Management that's listed on the notice as the contact person to get hold of with questions. I asked her whether there was an avenue for written comments in lieu of oral comments. Her response to me was:

"We recommend calling in to the Public Hearing as the best way to be heard. And because there has been such a big response, we are exploring the possibility of scheduling another Public Hearing the following week. One option you might explore is writing out your comments and giving them to a friend to read at the Public Hearing?"

So it looks like oral commentary is the only option. However, the larger takeaway for me from her response is that it sounds like they understand that this is a hot issue.

 

[Bambistew]

The "locals" will have all their buddies tie up the phone lines, so call in early and get in line.

 

[Kearnsie14]

This release just came out today. They don't list email information for these newly appointed Federal Subsistence Regional Advisory Council members but these are the people to get hold of and my assumption is that they'll be able to be contacted via published email at some point soon with written comments.

file:///C:/Users/Dave%20Kearns/Downloads/NR%202020%20Council%20Appointments.pdf

 

[Kearnsie14]

Sorry...tech challenged. I don't think my attachment worked. Let me try this.

NR 2020 Council Appointments.pdf
163.3kB

 

[Dinkshooter]

I think I first heard the term Kotzsuckers here on HT long, long ago.

 

[geetar]

Hard to believe the populations are tanking when the natives are running them down in boats and popping them in the head all over the place...
"Necessary survival hunting" I love it meanwhile they are running things down with snowmobiles and boats with rifles.
The guys paying an outfitting service to shoot few of the bulls out of the herd is nothing compared to what these people are doing...

This nonsense type of nonsense seems to happen everywhere. I’m on the east coast and here in NC while surf fishing or fishing from a boat within 3 miles of shore recreational anglers can keep one Red drum per person per day and it has to be within 18-27 inches and the commercial fishermen run gill nets and trawling rigs and do way more damage to the fisheries than a man with one rod can. It’s frustrating to see them even try to pull junk like this off under the guise of subsistence hunting when like you say they have all the modern equipment chasing them down. Wish they’d just be honest and say we won’t all the fish and game to ourselves. I could take that better.

 

[MTGomer]

If there is 640 million acres of federal public land in the USA, this is a closure of 9.4% of it.

Seems like a big deal. Like the biggest single threat to public land hunting there has been in my lifetime.

 

[Whiptail]

Hard to believe the populations are tanking when the natives are running them down in boats and popping them in the head all over the place...
"Necessary survival hunting" I love it meanwhile they are running things down with snowmobiles and boats with rifles.
The guys paying an outfitting service to shoot few of the bulls out of the herd is nothing compared to what these people are doing...

All people are equal but some are more equal than others.

 

[mtnprst]

Huge threat to western-state hunting which depends on access to USFS/BLM. Precedent was set with the Obama Administration which restricted predator hunting on several Alaska wildlife refuges over ethics concerns.

What this means practically is hunting on federal public land can be restricted and/or eliminated through a department rule or Presidential executive order.

I live in Wyoming and here hunting & fishing are protected by the Wyoming Constitution - but this doesn't extent to federal land. The State is subservient to the feds on federal land.

If you live in the West, reach out to your US Senators and Representatives and ask they begin drafting legislation to protect hunting from agency/department rule or Presidential Executive Order.

We reached out to our US Senators and Representative this week.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

What this means practically is hunting on federal public land can be restricted and/or eliminated through a department rule or Presidential executive order.

Alaska unlike other western states has dual management of wildlife due to federal legislation and state case law.

The issue is subsistence v. non-subsistence use.

Alaska State lands
McDowell V. State
"This case challenges chapter 52 SLA 1986 which grants a preference to rural residents to take fish and game for subsistence purposes. The only requirement to be met by a subsistence fisherman or hunter is residency in a rural area of the state.

The rural preference is challenged under several provisions of the Alaska Constitution: the common use clause, article VIII, section 3; the no exclusive right of fishery clause, article VIII, section 15; the uniform application clause, article VIII, section 17; the equal rights clause, article I, section 1; and the due process clause, article I, section 7. In addition, violation of the equal protection and due process clauses of the United States Constitution is claimed. For the reasons that follow, we hold that the rural preference violates article VIII, sections 3, 15 and 17 of the Alaska Constitution."

Alaska Federal Lands
Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title16/pdf/USCODE-2011-title16-chap51.pdf

Lower 48 federal lands are not subject to ANILCA.

The Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 states:
That nothing in this Act shall be construed as authorizing the Secretary concerned to require Federal permits to hunt and fish on public lands or on lands in the National Forest System and adjacent waters or as enlarging or diminishing the responsibility and authority of the States for management of fish and resident wildlife. However, the Secretary concerned may designate areas of public land and of lands in the National Forest System where, and establish periods when, no hunting or fishing will be permitted for reasons of public safety, administration, or compliance with provisions of applicable law. Except in emergencies, any regulations of the Secretary concerned relating to hunting and fishing pursuant to this section shall be put into effect only after consultation with the appropriate State fish and game department.

In Alaska the Federal government has the ability to enforce rules about hunting, esp. regarding subsistence. The methods of take banned by the Obama administration occurred on USFWS NWR where the USFWS has jurisdiction. All across the US refuge rules are different than USFS or BLM.

The specific rules you seem to be condemning.

(3) This rule prohibits the following practices for the taking of wildlife on Alaska National Wildlife refuges (except for subsistence uses by federally qualified subsistence users in accordance with applicable Federal laws and regulations):

• Taking black or brown bear cubs or sows with cubs (exception allowed for resident hunters to take black bear cubs or sows with cubs under customary and traditional use activities at a den site October 15-April 30 in specific game management units in accordance with State law);
• Taking brown bears over bait;
• Taking of bears using traps or snares;
• Taking wolves and coyotes during the denning season (May 1-August 9); and
• Taking bears from an aircraft or on the same day as air travel has occurred. The take of wolves or wolverines from an aircraft or on the same day as air travel has occurred is already prohibited under current refuge regulations.

There is a lot of case law regarding state management of wildlife. If hunting becomes illegal in a state it will be done by referendum or through pressure on the wildlife management agency or through, ESA protections of species.

Federal law already protects hunting on federal lands to some extent see FLPMA above.

Constitution rights to hunt won't override ESA, or federal land management policy they may or may not stop ballot box biology.

What will? Growing the base of hunters, allowing NR opportunity so that folks from other states feel compelled to advocate for and protect something they value.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@MTGomer and @N_8 sorry I edited because I realized, facts are better than just being a dick.

 

[Ben Lamb]

@MTGomer and @N_8 sorry I edited because I realized, facts are better than just being a dick.

Boooo.

 

[Bambistew]

I've sat through hours of presentations and read a lot of information on harvest in Alaska. The wounding loss estimates always intrigue me. This study estimated 20% loss, which I think was a real possibility considering open sighted rifles on crappy old military rifles, flock shooting, and just stupidity in general being the norm with big herds of animals. Today they still estimate a yearly wounding loss of 10+%. Also note the estimated population of caribou was less than 100,000 in the mid 1970s and the estimated harvest was much higher than today

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/home/library/pdfs/wildlife/research_pdfs/80_davis_etal_conf_paper_population_dynamics_alaska_wach.pdf

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I've sat through hours of presentations and read a lot of information on harvest in Alaska. The wounding loss estimates always intrigue me. This study estimated 20% loss, which I think was a real possibility considering open sighted rifles on crappy old military rifles, flock shooting, and just stupidity in general being the norm with big herds of animals. Today they still estimate a yearly wounding loss of 10+%. Also note the estimated population of caribou was less than 100,000 in the mid 1970s and the estimated harvest was much higher than today

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/home/library/pdfs/wildlife/research_pdfs/80_davis_etal_conf_paper_population_dynamics_alaska_wach.pdf

Interesting:
"The 1970-1976 decline occurred primarily due to excessive exploitation by subsistence hunters, including substantial wounding loss and waste, and considerable predation losses, primarily from wolves. Although few data are available for this period, yearling recruitment was probably sufficient to sustain the herd, even at a moderate level of human exploitation. Three main factors have allowed the population to grow since 1976. Harvest was reduced from an annual mean of 25000 caribou of either sex to 3000 to 4000 comprised mostly of bulls. Wolf predation decreased due to changes in the winter distribution of caribou and decreased numbers of wolves. Finally, yearling recruitment increased."

 

[Bambistew]

Interesting:
"The 1970-1976 decline occurred primarily due to excessive exploitation by subsistence hunters, including substantial wounding loss and waste, and considerable predation losses, primarily from wolves. Although few data are available for this period, yearling recruitment was probably sufficient to sustain the herd, even at a moderate level of human exploitation. Three main factors have allowed the population to grow since 1976. Harvest was reduced from an annual mean of 25000 caribou of either sex to 3000 to 4000 comprised mostly of bulls. Wolf predation decreased due to changes in the winter distribution of caribou and decreased numbers of wolves. Finally, yearling recruitment increased."

If it was 2016, they would blame the non-locals. I have a friend that used to hunt up that way in the 80s for moose/bou/sheep. It was a paradise, zero people. Of course he had a plane and at that time there was like 4 in Kotz.

This happened the first year I lived up here.

More than 100 animals were apparently killed. But Alaska Wildlife Troopers traversing the 40-mile Suicide Trail about 25 miles east of town found 25 distinct kill sites in which the meat from at least 37 caribou had been left to rot, with some calves still trying to suckle milk from the decomposing cows.
The number of wasted animals may actually have been higher, but evidence from bones and remains documented on the tundra weeks later was inconclusive.
"We just couldn't determine whether or not they were properly salvaged or not because they were badly decomposed or they were scavenged by predators," troopers spokeswoman Beth Ipsen said. "This was a lot of kill sites, widely scattered along a 40-mile trail system. Some were found in singles or pairs and they were all located within a short distance of the trail."

Eight charged in Point Hope caribou slaughter

Eight people have been charged with indiscriminately gunning down dozens of caribou on the Arctic tundra near Point Hope last summer, sorting through the carcasses and salvaging meat from only the most pristine animals.

www.adn.com

In case you were wondering what the outcome was... 5 if them go off and 3 were convicted of wasting a couple animals. They were all congratulated by their peers (and the tribal judge) for not bringing back "sick" animals to the villages for consumption.

This is not a one off occurrence. It happens regularly on a much smaller scale.

Subsistence!!!