Can you talk me out of getting a GSP

[MTLabrador]

Seems the sample size is >1 since the Draht club website says the breed was perfected to run down and kill game. It was not specifically designed to be a bird dog.

The Labrador retreiver breed on the other hand originated from three St Johns dogs, a breed that sadly disappeared in the early 1980s. The St Johns breed was perfected primarily to do two things: help retrieve fishing nets in the ocean and 2: keep the lonely fisherman in his dory company for extended periods. Those two characteristics, a close affectionate personality and ability to retreive, are what still makes it desirable today. The modern Lab's hunting ability can probably be attributed to other contributions over several centuries during its perfection; primarily setters, pointing dogs, and even a bit of bloodhound.

Somehow the Draht and the lab didn’t kill each other. Although mine may be a larger nonnative Canadian super lab.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Yes. Drahthaars ( and Kurzhaars as well) are supposed to be able to independently dispatch small predators such as raccoons and foxes. With training, they absolutely can and do live with house cats and chickens. I’ve also known more than one lab who got into a chicken coop or rabbit hutch and laid waste.

I see some people are still parroting their own narrative. Drahthaars were bred to be used for upland, waterfowl, vermin management, and big game retrieval and excel at each. One of the requirements for breeding is to score well on the duck search, because game recovery/retrieval is of the utmost priority. That said, pointing and field search is an integral part of the testing component.

If someone loves labs, great. They are good dogs. I’ve owned one. I’m not trying to compare a Drahthaar to a lab because I don’t give a shit what people own. Some folks shouldn’t speak to what they don’t know or understand.

 

[Irrelevant]

Because this is an anti GSP thread, I'll mention that my GSP cleaned out 14 of our neighbors 16 chickens before I even got a chance to introduce myself.

...she didn't retrieve any of my birds this weekend, only pointed a couple of the coveys, and couldn't find me once.

I'll talk you out of a GSP all day long!

Except the best bird dogs I've ever been around were GSP's, and they are great around your family and kids (just not anyone else's family and kids).

 

[Slam]

Because this is an anti GSP thread, I'll mention that my GSP cleaned out 14 of our neighbors 16 chickens before I even got a chance to introduce myself.

...she didn't retrieve any of my birds this weekend, only pointed a couple of the coveys, and couldn't find me once.

I'll talk you out of a GSP all day long!

Except the best bird dogs I've ever been around were GSP's, and they are great around your family and kids (just not anyone else's family and kids).

LOL!!!!!

In my early youth I remember the neighboring farmer driving right up to our porch where we were sitting, getting out of his truck, reaching in the bed for a feed sack and handing it to my dad stating "Phil, here's a sack of dead chickens and $10.00, feed your dogs". The fella got back in the truck and drove away saying nothing else. The offender was a weimaraner.

 

[Slam]

Seems the sample size is >1 since the Draht club website says the breed was perfected to run down and kill game. It was not specifically designed to be a bird dog.

This is not an accurate representation, here are some facts from the VDD web site:

Today’s DD is the dog most frequently used by the German hunting establishment, and is rapidly gaining popularity elsewhere, and that is not without reason. The Deutsch-Drahthaar is a passionate, hard-working dog. They are noted for their endurance and willingness to obey, as well as the ability to concentrate on the work at hand. After persistently searching the field with a sensitive nose, the DD shows the game by pointing, so that the hunter comes to a calm shot. Shot birds are hunted down and retrieved to the master. In particular, DD’s exhibit the characteristic of a retriever of lost game. They do this by their inbred capacity to track and pursue (and even dispatch) wounded game persistently and uncompromisingly in some of the most difficult conditions. This saves the game from unnecessary suffering. Their endurance, swimming ability and heavy coat also make them well suited to waterfowl hunting in the most adverse conditions.

(It was not specifically designed to be a bird dog.) you are correct here.

The Deutsch-Drahthaar was created in Germany in the late 19th century by a small group of dedicated breeders who set out to develop a versatile hunting dog that would satisfy all aspects of German hunting in field, forest, and water. This group of breeders succeeded in creating a versatile hunting dog that took its traits from the best dogs of the existing coarse hair breeds, cross bred with the shorthair blood. These ancestors included the Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, Griffon, and the Deutsch-Kurzhaar.

Here is the summary from the VDD website concerning the breed:

While the Deutsch-Drahthaar is a superb hunting companion, they are also well suited as a family dog. DD’s are normally gentle and friendly with children and other dogs, and are known to become protective of their “family” and home. Their intelligence and calm manner help them in adjusting to various living conditions. VDD Breeding Regulations specify that DD’s who show unwarranted aggressiveness toward people or other dogs are to be removed from the breeding program, so these traits do not get passed on.

Concerning that last sentence, while taking my current dog through his spring test, at the end the dogs are lined up and checked for conformation, one of the areas looked at is the mouth, the judges pull up the lips and check the bite and teeth. One of the bitches had shown aggression several times throughout the day and was growling when asked to line up with the other dogs...well, she bit both judges while having her mouth inspected. The judges calmly told the handler to "pick your dog up" and moved on. That show of aggression cost her the ability to be used for breeding as a DD.

I put this info out not to promote the DD breed (less popular is probably better) but to keep things factual. We all know there are bad actors in any breed, and those are the ones that get attention.

I've hunted over dachshunds (rabbit), Jack Russell's (worked with a GSP hunting pheasant in the thick stuff), collies, to coon hounds. Bottom line all dogs are fun to hunt over...well, maybe not the Spignoni...lol. Just kidding.

 

[Threedognight]

GWP doing well in SD at one year old.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Slam: Thanks for taking the time to cut and paste that piece from the website. Please explain the inaccuracy in my statement.

Yes, I understand there are bad apples in any breed. However, it certainly appears the breeding association is working towards eliminating a trait that if not now then in the not so distant past was a problem. It is not a stretch to imagine that a breed developed to "persistently and uncompromisingly" run down and dispatch game "to end suffering" might have tendencies towards agression.

 

[OntarioHunter]

LOL!!!!!

In my early youth I remember the neighboring farmer driving right up to our porch where we were sitting, getting out of his truck, reaching in the bed for a feed sack and handing it to my dad stating "Phil, here's a sack of dead chickens and $10.00, feed your dogs". The fella got back in the truck and drove away saying nothing else. The offender was a weimaraner.

This is interesting. I've had a lot of experience hunting around domesticated barnyard fowl with my dogs and never a problem. The most amazing incident was in the early eighties with what was and is probably the best dog I'll ever own. Ethyl was a Lab-golden cross that looked like a small black Lab. It was very cold and we were jump shooting ducks on an open water creek below a farmhouse. After a brief stalk a small bunch of mallards flushed. Unbeknownst to me, the farmer's flock of oversize flightless mallards was tucked up against the bank in front of us. When I dropped a greenhead, the tame ones spooked into the middle of the creek and the wild cripple got in among them immediately. Oh no, now what! To my surprise Ethyl didn't jump in after them. She pushed the flock up the creek a quarter of a mile running along the bank until the wild one finally made a break for it. Then she got it. Amazing. We had hunted that creek for years and she never seemed at all interested in those tame mallards (curiously, the wild ducks never seemed interested in them either). I guess because they never flew she figured we weren't after them. Similarly, I asked my late wife to marry me at Woodland Park in Kalispell, October 7, 1987. We were sitting on a park bench in the midst of a begging bunch of honkers. Ethyl was along and NOT ON A LEASH. Never ever needed one with her. Truely a guided missile. But whenever one of those honkers got too belligerent, head down and hissing, Ethyl moved and got in the way. I had to give some verbal assurance we were okay but she kept a stink eye on them. Honker hunting is what she lived for and the harder they fought her the more she loved it. Eventually one of the park staff gave us shit because she wasn't leashed and I had to get a piece of rope out of the trunk. Poor Ethyl acted like she'd been beat on. She was definitely one in a million.

Every year I hunt pheasants near a farmhouse with free roaming chickens. We often work the brushy corner of the creek immediately behind the barn for birds sneaking in to steal feed spread for the chickens. My dogs see the tame birds but have never been terribly interested in them. But I'm sure at some point I must have told them "Leave them alone."

 

[Trailsend]

In my opinion a lot of how a dog reacts around other people or dogs is based on how they were socialized and handled as a pup. I have been around many different breeds both hunting and nonhunting breeds, and have owned labs and GWP, you run into bad dogs with mental issues all over.

 

[Elmacho]

Trailsend- great point. Having a great dog requires quite a commitment- the more time you put into the dog, the better it will turn out, granted all the genetics show up. That means house manners, socialization and field work. Some are just defective, but its more rare among well-bred lines....

One of the guys I sold a pup to had it professionally trained for several months, then didn't take it out to continue the work/transfer control to himself. Did not put any field time into the dog, as it was "too much" time from work. Well, the dog doesn't point, retrieve, or even "hunt" for birds- but he is a much-loved pet and has excellent house manners.

Side note on the DD- I never saw mine have a temperament issue....but on the one and only goose I ever shot, I winged it----a jumbo honker. Thing lands across the river 100 yds fom me---very much alive. I sent her "back"- she got into quite the scuffle with a very live honker. As she neared the waters edge I was really thinking the goose is going to hurt her by pecking the crap out of her head or simply outswim her in the river. One more peck to the head and she was over it. She put it on the ground and held it with her paw while adjusting her grip. grabbed it by the back and whipped the honker's head against the rocky floor. She checked it and it moved a bit....one more whipping and it was dispatched----she delivered that dang 12+lb goose to hand- dead. proud dad moment there....

 

[Trailsend]

Elmacho,
Had a similar experience with my current gwp, retrieving a duck, it kept pecking her nose, she slowly closed her mouth I herd a slight crunch, no teeth marks or damage to the meat. But one very dead duck. Any bird that overly struggles now is handled in the same way.

 

[Mule man]

how a dog reacts around other people or dogs is based on how they were socialized and handled as a pup.

Well said

 

[maverick9465]

What do you guys and gals think about a GSP for a guy like me? I hunt pheasants three or four times a year and duck and goose hunt up to forty days a year but mosly in fields and also we get done early a lot with plenty of day light left for chasing upland birds. I guess I'm curious how a gsp would do in the blind and how it would do retrieving waterfowl.

GSP was on my list. I wanted a bird dog. My wife wanted a dog that didn't shed (much). We settled on a vizsla. They a versatile breed, but the downside is they don't have an undercoat (hence, very little shedding), so late season duck hunting is tough on them, even with neoprene. But we have loved the breed so far. He's a hard hunter, especially for grouse, pheasant and chukar. No issues in the mountains whatsoever.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Well said

Not necessarily. We had a chocolate Lab that would flash its teeth at us when she was inside the car and we approached it. Even after fourteen years. I never raised her any differently than any other Lab I owned. Also very aggressive about people in uniform. My brother had a fancy papered yellow Lab that was so stupid I'm surprised it had the sense to breathe. Totally untrainable! I get so tired of people with worthless rescue dogs blaming their shortcomings on previous owners' abuse. Bad genetics goes beyond just bone and eye issues.

 

[Mule man]

Not necessarily. We had a chocolate Lab that would flash its teeth at us when she was inside the car and we approached it. Even after fourteen years. I never raised her any differently than any other Lab I owned. Also very aggressive about people in uniform. My brother had a fancy papered yellow Lab that was so stupid I'm surprised it had the sense to breathe. Totally untrainable! I get so tired of people with worthless rescue dogs blaming their shortcomings on previous owners' abuse. Bad genetics goes beyond just bone and eye issues.

Have raised dogs for 50 years and have never had this issue? The dogs with issues whether family freinds or neighbers have been due to the owners,spoiled and no obedience . Puppies are cute then the newnice wears off. Just my .002

 

[SoCalhunt88]

As a GSP owner I’d say my dogs nightmare would be in a cold duck blind. She’s can maintain her temperature in the cold when we are actively hunting but shivers like she’s dying when it’s 45. In my experience they’re really an upland dog that can sub in as a waterfowl dog (I know I’ll catch heat for that statement). Also their prey drive is pretty high and I’ve lost a lot of my own chicken flock over time to chickens getting out and her getting in once (wasn’t good). That being said I got a GSP thinking I wanted the versatility but realized I much preferred the upland hunting and it’s worked out pretty well. I have some complaints about her range but that’s for another day. She’s a great dog in and out of the house FYI. Hope some first hand is helpful

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

SO.... question?

Are we through enough serious advice for the OP that I can just start spamming pictures of my corgi kicking all your dogs asses or is that like #200 material

 

[BrdHntr]

Forgot about the GSP and go ENGLISH

Pointer or Setter

if you hunt birds, get a dog that was bred to hunt birds only...not one of those German coon/coyote/armadillo/porcupine killers

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Somehow the Draht and the lab didn’t kill each other.

So we're elk hunting. My buddy got roped into dog sitting so we have his old mutt, his buddies 12 year old Draht, and Gus.

Gus loves my buddy... Gus will also fight anything that touches my pack. We don't know why it's just a thing.

We're glassing, dogs are doing dog stuff. My pack is between my buddy and I, Gus decides to take a nap under my buddy's legs. (Hands on knees glassing)

Draht comes up and wants to snuggle too, gets about 12 inches from my buddies boots, inside the zone of pack protection apparently, and Gus loses his GD mind.

Draht decides he looks enough like a trash panda that she's willing to play ball, Gus is like a cornered badger in a hole.

So yeah my buddies got his legs spread, all that's happening.

No one died... lots of tears all around though and no elk were killed that day.


Approx. five mins after this was taken a corgi attacked a 80lb lab, What a dick.

 

[Irrelevant]

As a GSP owner I’d say my dogs nightmare would be in a cold duck blind. She’s can maintain her temperature in the cold when we are actively hunting but shivers like she’s dying when it’s 45. In my experience they’re really an upland dog that can sub in as a waterfowl dog (I know I’ll catch heat for that statement). Also their prey drive is pretty high and I’ve lost a lot of my own chicken flock over time to chickens getting out and her getting in once (wasn’t good). That being said I got a GSP thinking I wanted the versatility but realized I much preferred the upland hunting and it’s worked out pretty well. I have some complaints about her range but that’s for another day. She’s a great dog in and out of the house FYI. Hope some first hand is helpful

Seriously? My GSP overheats like crazy if it's over 30 deg.