CA to allow 100% online hunter ed. No classroom attendance required.

[HuntCA]

I posted this in the general topics thread. Here is the link. https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/ca...y-class-100-online-due-to-coronavirus.298494/

 

[Sdolan617]

Yup - great opportunity to get those in your circle who might be on the fence into the game. I was able to convince a friend to take the plunge whose been interested in coming out but who I could never get to just go do the class.

 

[Slightball]

Agree. I have had three friends take advantage

 

[bobbydean]

I agree. When my daughter tool her hunter safety ( I took it with her), I thought the field trial was a joke. There were some arrogant know it all that loved being in charge, and did not contribute to the class at all.

 

[Gellar]

As a Certified hunters Ed instructor this is the way it’s been trending for 5+ years. Covid-19 is expediting the process. Wether you like it or not. Fortunately, I still teach it as part of the required curriculum in junior high school.

 

[Slightball]

As a Certified hunters Ed instructor this is the way it’s been trending for 5+ years. Covid-19 is expediting the process. Wether you like it or not. Fortunately, I still teach it as part of the required curriculum in junior high school.

I definitely think there are many many people who actually do need the in person instruction. I only recommended to those who I know understand guns, safety etc. My kids have a hard enough time sitting still for anything, let alone a four hour class!!

I did have a random question as an instructor. Can you teach a private class? i.e. five people pay you to teach the in-person one Saturday, or are they always run through the state?

 

[Gellar]

I definitely think there are many many people who actually do need the in person instruction. I only recommended to those who I know understand guns, safety etc. My kids have a hard enough time sitting still for anything, let alone a four hour class!!

I did have a random question as an instructor. Can you teach a private class? i.e. five people pay you to teach the in-person one Saturday, or are they always run through the state?

I think everyone should do in person classes. We do live fire, gun handling etc. a lot of people don’t get to that or if they do get to shoot or handle firearms they do not have a good mentor.
I have been asked to give kids private classes. It is usually right before deer season anD mom or dad knows they waited to long.

 

[Vidimus]

The site specifically says no minimum age... Does that mean if I have a couple youngins, they could both get the hunter ed early? Too young to actually get a tag for big game since CA makes you wait till you're 12, but would be nice to get the hunter ed out of the way. Anyone try with their younger ones?

 

[brnsvllyjohn]

Most instructors used to start at age 9 if the 9 year old was mature enough to handle the material. My grandsons did it at 9 as well as my son. Now that there is no instructor requirements I am not sure how young of a person will be allowed to take the course. I can tell you that some 9 year olds do fine for waterfowl or small game and others were not ready. I personally passed at age 10. (100 years ago)

I can tell you that I feel better about going on a deer hunt with a 12 year old who has at least two seasons of hunting behind him. Doing a couple of years of small game or waterfowl is a great opportunity to instill basic safety habits before they carry a rifle for big game.

 

[Slightball]

The site specifically says no minimum age... Does that mean if I have a couple youngins, they could both get the hunter ed early? Too young to actually get a tag for big game since CA makes you wait till you're 12, but would be nice to get the hunter ed out of the way. Anyone try with their younger ones?

Yes that is correct. Since the course and test is online, they really have to be able to read and have good reading comprehension (unless you read ever question for them). IMO, it's worth doing now to avoid a four hour class with them later, that could be a hour or more away from your house. That being said, I will continue to teach my kids safety and instructions, long before I just hand them a hunting license and say go for it!!!

 

[Mako]

I think it's a great idea too. I'm thinking this is part of that Initiative R3 that they started a couple years back. Only thing that concerns me is that, as Gellar already mentioned, gun handling, and live fire were part of the course. I hope there won't be anyone foolish enough to make their first hunting trip their first outting with a firearm.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I think everyone should do in person classes. We do live fire, gun handling etc. a lot of people don’t get to that or if they do get to shoot or handle firearms they do not have a good mentor.
I have been asked to give kids private classes. It is usually right before deer season anD mom or dad knows they waited to long.

I feel torn on that one... I took a hybrid in-person/online class at age 24. I think the online portion wasn't wowed by the online portion, some good reminders, but if felt pretty much a review of common sense.

The firearm handling portion was valuable, certainly if you are an adult and don't have a hunting mentor it was very helpful. That said I think I got better/more thorough info at a shooting range from a range master, the one I went to in Denver made everyone do an orientation on their first visit. I don't think hunter's ed is your only option for firearm training (nor should it be)

My primary issue with the field sessions are the lack of dates and limited locations. I've gotten some friends into hunting and signing up for a field day was always a major issues (MT/CO). Usually the field days were booked solid, and at seemingly bizarre locations. 3 of my friends took hunter's ed when I was in MT and they all had to drive over 5 hours one way to get to a location. A buddy in Denver drove to Meeker to do a field day. The field day calendar definitely doesn't correspond well with the hunting calendar, ie sometimes there are simply no dates for the class the month before the draw, or during the summer.

Also IMHO IHEA does a pretty crappy job at teaching meat care. I feel like I spent an hour on the Idaho archery course learning about Saxton Pope, yet I don't even think they mentioned meat spoilage, maybe they did but it was so fleeting I don't remember it.

Also wow to gut various animals + plus the gutless method should be taught in the course, along with meat transport in the field and in vehicles. I even think it would be valuable for some videos on how to bone out hind quarters and shoulders.


TLDR; I think online courses are fine, the curriculum is more important than the setting.

 

[Lyfter1013]

I like the idea of making it easier for people to get into the outdoors but to me this causes some concerns. For the most part sportsman and woman are responsible and teach our kids adequate gun safety and handling.
however just like in every group there are those that bend the rules take short cuts etc.. I’m sure I could see a father completing the test online for their kid just so they could get them out in the field to hunt without ever going through hunters safety. at least previously the kids had to sit through the class and hear what was being said then take the course themselves.

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

Will this be good for all states? If so I can finally get mine!

 

[Slightball]

Will this be good for all states? If so I can finally get mine!

Yes. And even before CA did this, North Carolina had done the same thing. Had a friend take that online course and immediately transfer it to CA with no problems. He got in into for the big game drawings. Then the next week CA did it anyways.

 

[Slightball]

I feel torn on that one...

My primary issue with the field sessions are the lack of dates and limited locations. I've gotten some friends into hunting and signing up for a field day was always a major issues (MT/CO). Usually the field days were booked solid, and at seemingly bizarre locations. 3 of my friends took hunter's ed when I was in MT and they all had to drive over 5 hours one way to get to a location. A buddy in Denver drove to Meeker to do a field day. The field day calendar definitely doesn't correspond well with the hunting calendar, ie sometimes there are simply no dates for the class the month before the draw, or during the summer.

This 1,000%

 

[Gellar]

I agree with you that in many cases the class is outdated and needs to be updated. but I would also like to point out that...

I feel torn on that one... I took a hybrid in-person/online class at age 24. I think the online portion wasn't wowed by the online portion, some good reminders, but if felt pretty much a review of common sense.

Common sense isn't so common anymore.

The firearm handling portion was valuable, certainly if you are an adult and don't have a hunting mentor it was very helpful. That said I think I got better/more thorough info at a shooting range from a range master, the one I went to in Denver made everyone do an orientation on their first visit. I don't think hunter's ed is your only option for firearm training (nor should it be)

Hunters Safety courses are not designed to be the one and only course you receive in firearm handling. It takes people lifetimes to master gunhandling and shooting techniques. Where I teach hunters education it is mostly rural, most of the kids have their own firearm or have a parent that owns a firearm. If they do not they have a relative or a friend with a firearm in their house. Many, but not all of these "mentors" are teaching proper handling of firearms. Every year I have a dad or a mom sit through the class who took hunters ed when they were young and they thank us for the refresher course and point out some of the safety issues they were forgetting.

Also IMHO IHEA does a pretty crappy job at teaching meat care. I feel like I spent an hour on the Idaho archery course learning about Saxton Pope, yet I don't even think they mentioned meat spoilage, maybe they did but it was so fleeting I don't remember it.

In general, I would agree with this. The manual has two pages of content on Field care and Transporting game and there is one test question on meat care. "The three largest factors in meat spoliage are...?" Heat, Moisture, and Dirt. The time I have with the students in a hunters education course in is about 12 hours total. I wish I had more time to cover this, and demonstrate it, but I simply do not.

Also wow to gut various animals + plus the gutless method should be taught in the course, along with meat transport in the field and in vehicles. I even think it would be valuable for some videos on how to bone out hind quarters and shoulders.

If I asked 10 random hunters East of Mississippi river if they have ever heard of the gutless method I would venture to guess I may get 1 or 2 that have heard of it.

I am not trying to argue against some of the outdatedness of the Hunters Education course that is taught today. But from a standpoint of a person who has taught at least 2 hunters education classes a year for the last 10 years I am trying to say that instructors are for the most part volunteer (it takes about 30 hours of work between registration, answering questions, getting supplies, teaching the class, distributing certificates, and doing paperwork to ensure the DNR gets funded from the Pittman Robertson Act for the class) and we would love to be able to go more in depth and spend as much time as needed on many of these areas, but it is not possible. During our course as part of the solution we promote organizations like Pheasants Forever, NWTF, etc that offer very valuable mentored courses where it is much more feasible for some of these topics to be covered much more in depth.

I feel that by going online only it will benefit and possibly get more people certified in order to buy more hunting licenses. There are people who would benefit from an online only course, but there is also a large segment, at least in our area, that would still prefer to take the class in person. By only providing 1 option you are limiting the class even more then it already is in my opinion.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

@Gellar (I agree on all your points, below comments are just further discussion)

Ostensibly the main reason one hunt's is in order to obtain food.

I still have access to all the material for my Idaho bow hunter's ed.

So you learn all of this... videos about Pope and Young, Bill Wadsworth, and the history of IBEP (noticeably no mention of native hunters in the course.. apparently two white dudes invented archery in the early 1900s )


The course takes ~2-4 hours of that there is one slide with a 38 sec timer that talks about what to do after you have an animal down.
So in order to hunt with a bow I need to be able to wax on Bill Wadsworth but gutting a deer... meh not that important.

This kind of thing isn't unique to the Idaho course. I've sat through the full CO course to get my card, accompanied a buddy through the MT course, and did the Idaho bow online course.



"If I asked 10 random hunters East of Mississippi river if they have ever heard of the gutless method I would venture to guess I may get 1 or 2 that have heard of it. "

Agreed, most of New England doesn't have wanton waste laws, I've been calling all the DNRs in the states I plan hunting this season to make sure I don't make a dumb mistake and I'm blown away by the nit-pickiness of firearm rules and game transport laws and the total lack of regulation with regard to meat care.

MA is promulgating new rules this summer, but as it is currently you can legally shoot a bear, check it in, skin out the skull and toss the hide and all the meat. Same with a deer you can just keep the antlers.

 

[HuntCA]

I think it's a great idea too. I'm thinking this is part of that Initiative R3 that they started a couple years back. Only thing that concerns me is that, as Gellar already mentioned, gun handling, and live fire were part of the course. I hope there won't be anyone foolish enough to make their first hunting trip their first outting with a firearm.

When I went with my son to his HS class(he was 13) there was no live fire class. Plenty of dummy load gun handling, but no live fire. I don't think that was a requirement in the state. Obviously he and I have talked his entire life about gun safety(as did my dad with me) and we have been together at the range and out small game/bird hunting practicing all the tenents of good safe gun handling.

 

[Mako]

When I went with my son to his HS class(he was 13) there was no live fire class. Plenty of dummy load gun handling, but no live fire. I don't think that was a requirement in the state. Obviously he and I have talked his entire life about gun safety(as did my dad with me) and we have been together at the range and out small game/bird hunting practicing all the tenents of good safe gun handling.

Probably wasn't a requirement here in CA, which is kind of shocking with how anti-gun the leadership in this state is. You'd think they'd have made it a requirement from a gun safety standpoint. I took the course some 30 years ago when I was 16/17 yo. (somewhere near South Gate I believe). There was a trap shoot as part of the course. You've done your due diligence as a father. I didn't really have anyone to mentor me back then. I had a couple friends my age whose dad's had taught them and started taking them hunting really young. They in turn helped teach me and would go with me trap and skeet shooting so I could practice. I only hunted upland birds back then.