Sitka Gear Optifade Cover

Bush Vows Extinction of Salmon in My Private Idaho

JoseCuervo

New member
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
9,752
Location
South of the Border
Bush came campaigning up to Eastern Washinton yesterday, and invited 500 of his supporters to his "invitation only" photo op in front of one of the Fish Killing dams on the Lower Snake.
a1399123.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> ICE HARBOR DAM, Wash. _ President Bush defended the federal government's plan to save Pacific salmon on Friday, firmly rejecting the idea of dam breaching.

"We've got an energy problem in America," Bush said, speaking at the Ice Harbor Dam along the Snake River east of Pasco. "We don't need to be breaching any dams that produce electricity. And we won't."

Bush celebrated a rise in the Pacific salmon population, which has resulted in the largest spawning migrations in the Columbia Basin in 20 years.

That's evidence, he said, that salmon can recover without removing the dams, which provide irrigation, inland shipping corridors and power.

"We can have good, clean hydroelectric power and salmon restoration going on at the same time," Bush told a crowd of 500 invited guests.

But federal officials acknowledge the recovery has been buoyed by hundreds of thousands of hatchery-raised fish and that wild salmon still make up a small minority of the population.

Scientists also credit colder temperatures in the Pacific Ocean for bolstering the salmon's food supply. When ocean currents warm the water, they warn, the fish will need a strong, diverse population to survive.

"A few years of improved runs won't erase decades of decline," said John Kober of the National Wildlife Federation, an environmental group in Portland. "We're playing Russian roulette with our salmon population."

Bush's appearance Friday was far less contentious than his other stops in the Northwest. White House security kept several dozen protesters from the dam, but the protesters held signs along a road and chanted as Bush drove past.

The Northwest tour, designed to shore up Bush's environmental reputation, has been met by large-scale protests in Portland and Seattle.

His appearance was jolting in this remote, arid farmland in Central Washington. Snipers watched from water towers and Secret Service agents stood guard in the sagebrush.

In a folksy, 30-minute talk, he leaned an elbow against the podium and praised the crowd as "fine, down-to-earth, hard-working people." Hay bales hemmed in the podium and Bush wore a casual, gray shirt.

"We finally feel like we're being listened to," said Rick Mercer, a 59-year-old cattle rancher from the Columbia Basin. "I think he's trying to maintain a balance between the environment and the people who live here."

Bush's visit was the first to Oregon and Washington since the 2000 elections, when he lost both states by narrow margins. He appealed to moderate voters Friday, saying that successful compromises could be reached on controversial issues.

He lashed out at national environmental leaders, who have panned his policies on fisheries, forests and a host of other issues. A coalition of Northwest environmental groups gave the president an "F" for his efforts to protect salmon. They say he has implemented just one-third of the federal salmon restoration plan released in 2000, and funded only half of the projects.

Bush dismissed the most extreme environmentalists, who he said flock to urban areas like Washington, D.C., to promote Western land policies.

"There's a lot of experts on the environment back there," Bush said. "Or at least they think they are. They're constantly trying to tell people what to do -- people such as yourselves.

"They ought to come out and visit with the folks who actually protect the environment."

Virgil Lewis, a member of the Yakama Tribe, was cautious in his praise of the Bush administration's efforts to help salmon.

"It's the first step in the right direction," said Lewis, a tribal councilman and former hatchery manager. "It'd be great if someday we could rely on the wild stock. We have a long ways to go."

Some of the 11 species still hang on the verge of extinction. Last year, just 55 sockeye salmon made it past the last dam on the lower Snake River -- an improvement, scientists say, but still a dangerously low number.

Other populations, like the Oregon Coast Coho, have grown dramatically, tripling and quadrupling their numbers. Yet up to 90 percent of those fish are hatchery stock, born in buckets and raised in concrete pens.

Hundreds of scientists and environmental leaders have urged the federal government to consider breaching the dams to save the wild salmon.

Bush firmly opposed dam-breaching in the 2000 elections, and in the aftermath of the Northwest's energy crisis, the issue disappeared from the public view. But it returned this spring when a federal judge ordered the Bush administration to rethink its plan to save salmon, saying it was inadequate and violated the Endangered Species Act.

On Friday, Bush toured the dam, viewing fish ladders that help juvenile salmon move downstream and marveling at the facility's generation capability.

"It's an important part of the past, and I'm here to tell you it's going to be a crucial part of the future as well," Bush said.

The lower Snake River's four dams produce 1,100 megawatts per hour -- enough energy to continuously power the city of Seattle. They account for 4 percent of the Northwest's power generation.

Built in the 1960s and '70s, the dams provided a shipping route for wheat farmers and established Lewiston as the hub of inland shipping. The power production and irrigation pools were ancillary benefits.

But the dams created a biological barrier to migrating salmon that return to the Columbia and Snake rivers to spawn. They transformed the Snake and Columbia from swift, free-flowing rivers into wide, slow bodies of water.

When Lewis and Clark passed through the Columbia Basin in 1805, they found the water teeming with salmon.

"It must have been an unbelievable sight," Bush said.

The loss of salmon would be devastating to the Northwest, Bush said. He cast the federal government as a partner with local citizens in the effort to save salmon.

"There's no doubt in my mind you will accomplish that objective," Bush told the crowd. "There's no doubt in my mind we will help. We want to be helpers, not hinderers."

He urged citizens to volunteer their time or to make private donations.

More than $600 million will be spent this year to help the salmon population recover. Much of the money comes from ratepayers of the Bonneville Power Administration, which distributes electricity produced by the dams.

"It's a positive story," Bush said. "We have shown the world we can have a good quality of life and we can save the salmon."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But federal officials acknowledge the recovery has been buoyed by hundreds of thousands of hatchery-raised fish and that wild salmon still make up a small minority of the population.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hatchery raised?????? Isnt that like hunting high fence elk?
 
Nut,

You have an infinite amount of wisdom and insight. You hit the nail on the head.
biggrin.gif


These "wonderful" runs we have had the last two years are EXACTLY akin to a high fence. You should see the Salmon anglers shoulder to shoulder in the Little Salmon River, in the only legal place to fish, just before the fish head to the Rapid River hatchery. Up on the Clearwater, all the Anglers are casting to the Outlet pipe at the Ahsahaka hatchery, as these fish are all trying to return home to their "concrete raceway and plastic bucket".

Sporting it aint.... better than nothing? Maybe, maybe not, if it masks the tragedy that is taking place with the Wild Fish.
 
1-ptr,

I am thinking that your Post content should be longer than your Signature content.... I think it is a rule, somewhere.

It would be more interesting if Bush would have been standing in front of a dam that produces a meaningful amount of electricity.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The lower Snake River's four dams produce 1,100 megawatts per hour -- enough energy to continuously power the city of Seattle. They account for 4 percent of the Northwest's power generation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And keep in mind BPA is an Exporter of power from the region....
 
Paul, Great logic! The dams have been an environmental and economic disaster. They only produce 4% of the electricity used in the region, and the region exports more than that because there's a surplus! No one here has ever said they want to stop all electricity generating from all sources, just the ones that are destroying anadromous fish runs. Would you want to continue using Chernobyl if you lived next door to it?

A source of a tiny amount of electricity has proven to be disaster for the fish, for the economy and for the environment. You must not be very bright.
biggrin.gif
 
Ithaca,

Your logic is what is phucked up. I could have told you that not eating meat turns your brain to shit.

If the electricity produced from these dams is "tiny", tell it to the People in Seattle when you disconnect them from the grid. And when this plan doesn't work as good as you hoped, tell it to half of California when you decide to breach their power sources.

Ithaca, why don't you show all how silly it is to be dependent on electricity. As long as you are using electricty from the grid, YOU are just another "Salmon Killer".

Paul

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-24-2003 14:32: Message edited by: BigHornyRam ]</font>
 
Paul,

You might want to read up on some of the issues, before you start making your outlandish claims.
map_sm.jpg
.
Look at the Map, and you can see that the BPA does not service Seattle. So, I would guess the residents of Seattle won't be "taken off the grid". Seattle is served by Seattle City Light, and they own their own hydro plants. They own the electricity coming out of Lucky Peak, 10 miles above Boise on the Boise River. Some years, they are a "net" seller of power, and some years they have had to buy. In the dry year of 2001 they had to buy 24% of their power from BPA, so even worst case, the dams in question produce 4% of 24%, or approximately 1% of the power. I doubt Seattle will go dark.

As for the people in California, the 1100 megawatts per hour would not be noticed. It is a rounding error at best.
 
BHR, I'm having elk tonite on the BBQ.
biggrin.gif


Here's an accurate analogy for you. Would you demand that anyone who opposes a highly subsidized environmentally destructive timber sale that was going to ruin 99% of the hunting opportunities in very large area and result in billions of dollars of lost economic opportunity quit using wood products? Remember, there'd be no shortage of timber to be harvested in other areas.

If a proposed silver mine were guaranteed to ruin hundreds of miles of prime fish habitat, kill millions of fish and result in billions of dollars of lost fishing/tourist economy would you demand that anyone opposing it quit using products with silver in them?

You're so far out in the ozone on this issue you're looking even dumber than usual.
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif


<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-24-2003 15:06: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
Paul, what you just got from Gunner and Ithaca....

That would be what you'd call a "spanking".

I'd say your ass is a bright cherry red heading towards purple from that "spanking".
 
Ithaca,

Face it, you are a Salmon Killer! Your analogies are not even close to reality. 99 % reduction in hunting opportunity? Where do you get this as a comparison to what is happening with the salmon. This past salmon season in Idaho had a lot of opportunity. My neighbor went over to Idaho and caught several of these endangered fish. What do you want the salmon to jump in your boat for you? Maybe you should give Bush's proposed solutions a chance. Maybe then even you could catch a salmon or two. Not much of a chance if all you do is whine on the computer.

You said:

"If a proposed silver mine were guaranteed to ruin hundreds of miles of prime fish habitat, kill millions of fish and result in billions of dollars of lost fishing/tourist economy would you demand that anyone opposing it quit using products with silver in them?"

Yes I would. Also these dams are not proposed. They are reality, and there are real problems with breaching them that you refuse to address.

So keep using your electricity, and keep killing salmon. I'm voting for BUSH! At least he wants to do something about the problem, instead of being a whiney hypocrite! How does your candidate from Vermont, whats his name, stand on this issue?

Paul
 
Buzz boy,

I'ld spank you some more, but I hear that turns you on, and I wouldn't want to give you the wrong impression.

Paul
 
Paul, You're really a glutton for punishment! How could you be so wrong about so many things? "99 % reduction in hunting opportunity? Where do you get this as a comparison to what is happening with the salmon." I'd say our salmon and steelhead returns are about 1% of what they were before dams were built on the Columbia and Snake.
 
Buzzard,

I did bring it on bitch. On the wild horse grazing thread, I asked you a lot of questions, but so far you've been unable to answer them. And this thread, you and your wacko dam breaching pals, elk dumber and salmon killer, have brought nothing to the table. I'm getting real bored whipping up on the 3 of you wackos with both of my arms tied behind my back. Yawn.

Paul
 
Salmon Killer,

You said:

"I'd say our salmon and steelhead returns are about 1% of what they were before dams were built on the Columbia and Snake"

Do you got a source for this, or is it pulled straight out of your ass? So are you now advocating removing all the dams on the Columbia and Snake? After all each dam is killing some salmon. Only way we can stop killing salmon is to remove all dams and stop using electricity. Dams, coal, natural gas, nuclear, its all bad and we need to stop using it today.

Paul
 
Hey bitch, I mean Paul, you better check the wild horse thread...I gave an answer a couple days ago...wrong yet again...

I think Ithaca's right, you are a glutten for punishment.
 
Actually, Paul, the 1% estimate would be too high. Considering that the returns before the dams were built are estimated to be in the tens of millions, we probably have reduced the runs by over 99%.

You musta been drinking all day to think you could debate any of these issues with your superiors here in SI!
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
 
Paul, heres some data for you from the march 2001 sportsaAfield:

"When Lewis and Clark reached the Pacific Ocean in 1805 16 million WILD salmon entered the mouth of the Columbia...now only about 2 million salmon, most of them HATCHERY REARED, make their way upstream."

"Historically the Snake River produced 40 percent, or 6 million of the Columbia Basins fish, an average of only 10,000 wild fish now return to the Snake."

Heres the mean dam counts on the 4 Snake river dams for the years between 1964-68 and the mean of the counts between 1996-2000.

It only shows a decline of 82%...
No problem says you? The numbers dont lie.

Mean: Steelhead Spr/Sum Combined
1964-1968 62,564 47,260 109,824
1996-2000 11,339 6,395 17,734
Difference 51,225 40,865 92,090
Decline 82% 86% 84%

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-24-2003 19:08: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,395
Messages
2,019,643
Members
36,153
Latest member
Selway
Back
Top