Bulldozers at Big Bend

[INMT]

Agreed. National Parks are on a different level of protection than non wilderness USFS and BLM lands.

I work in a NPS unit on the Northern border and it would be a cold day in hell if bulldozers were cut loose without approval.

What’s happening is egregious at the least. It’s obvious there’s no approval.

 

[NR_Hunter]

That's how I was working 20 years ago. lol
View attachment 414848

Is that a R8?

 

[Lasiocarpa]

Even on multiple use public lands, outside of existing disturbance or maybe blading an existing road or two track, no one is using dozers to get specialists in to do their surveys.

This is one of the strangest arguments I’ve heard in a while. Akin to “we have to pass the bill to see what’s in it”.

The whole point is to do the surveys prior to turning heavy equipment loose…

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Again, you’re talking about a mine and pre-existing disturbance, on multiple-use lands. Not the same thing, at all, to undisturbed areas on land designated by Congress for preservation or conservation. It has nothing whatsoever to do with laziness…it’s a matter of legality. I’m getting the feeling you are unwilling or unable to recognize the distinction though.

I do recognize the distinction. What you seem to be unable to recognize is you have no idea if the work done was illegal. Neither you nor I know what was done. We don't know if there is a prior approval to disturb the land. We don't know sh1t other than there is at least one dozer at Big Bend and it is doing something. There was information that it was being used to clean up storm damaged roads and create access to perform surveys. You appear to disregard that little nugget as BS. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I don't know and either do you. Then the assumption comes out that no one would ever use a dozer to perform a survey, they would use their feet, a tripod and a stake. I am simply pointing out that there is more to performing surveys than just pounding lathe into the ground and that the use of heavy equipment to get things done is not in and of itself proof that something illegal is happening. And yes, NP's are different than run of the mill BLM lands but don't act like NP's don't have roads all over them for a variety of reasons. They do. This could very well be work that is completely on the up and up. I don't know and neither do you.

If the final verdict is that the work being done is illegal, unnecessary and/or a complete waste of time and taxpayer money than I will be as pissy as anybody. But simply stating there is a dozer at Big Bend and therefore this is something beyond the pale is just not so. And you know that.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Is that a R8?

It is.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Well spending tax money at $1000s/hr for a bulldozer to not walk is deemed worthwhile by some. Not sure what an ordinary citizen can do besides ask questions and vote out the elected officials… only to get more of the same reckless spending. Alas, I’ll just continued to try to lower my individual tax bill

They would often times lay out fine silk linens for me to step out of the chopper onto so I didn't get my feet muddy. That why I don't complain much about government waste. Some things are just necessary.


Yes. That is a joke.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Even on multiple use public lands, outside of existing disturbance or maybe blading an existing road or two track, no one is using dozers to get specialists in to do their surveys.

This is one of the strangest arguments I’ve heard in a while. Akin to “we have to pass the bill to see what’s in it”.

The whole point is to do the surveys prior to turning heavy equipment loose…

I have not once said they were disturbing the land they wished to study. I have stated the exact opposite, that perhaps they are disturbing land that prior approvals exist so that they can gain access to the land they wish to survey. I have both improved existing roads and punched in new access, all across land that I have prior approval to construct roads. Yes, you stop when you hit the land that is being surveyed. All I am saying is it is completely possible that the work they are doing is on land that is already approved for disturbance so that they can access the land they wish to study.

I have not been able to find any information that explicitly states what and where they are working and if it is illegal or not. I have found information that states the work is cleanup of existing roads and creating access points to land so that surveys could be completed.

 

[Lasiocarpa]

I think when they say surveys, they mean arch clearance, vegetation, wildlife, etc. They are probably using the dozer to get the pickup and people to perform these surveys in the area.

This is your quote that we are all replying to. It’s literally not how it is supposed to work…

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

This is your quote that we are all replying to. It’s literally not how it is supposed to work…

Disturbing land, where approval exists, to gain access to the land they wish to study. This is literally how it works.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

This is your quote that we are all replying to. It’s literally not how it is supposed to work…

"Correct, the access construction would not be in the area of the proposed action but could easily be in the an area that prior authorization exists. That is what I was suggesting may be taking place. It is also what we do around here. We clean up and/or build access roads in areas we already have approval so that crews can reach the proposed action area."

You may have missed this clarification yesteday

 

[NR_Hunter]

It is.

Wow! I knew they gave hand me down equipment at work but I didn’t realize they were THAT old.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Neither you nor I know what was done.

Which is exactly what I stated in my very first post. Then you started making a bunch of apples to elephants comparisons between mining lands and parks that are just flat wrong.

Disturbing land, where approval exists, to gain access to the land they wish to study. This is literally how it works.

Those of us who have been working on exactly this for a couple decades beg to differ.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Wow! I knew they gave hand me down equipment at work but I didn’t realize they were THAT old.

That was the top of the line best back then. They are still "good".