Boots - "Toe bang".

[JMG]

I have always had an issue with my boots and "toe bang". Meaning … while hiking/hunting and I am either side-hilling or traveling straight down a hill, my toes bang into the toe box of my boot and I end up with blackened toe nail(s) or losing my toe nail(s). I purchased a pair a high quality of boot (Lowa - Tibets) and I still end up with "toe bang" and now I experience the bottom of my feet feeling like they are "on fire/burning" during and after a long hike/hunt. I now know that the sensation on the bottom of my feet feeling like they're on fire/burning is the boot (Lowa - Tibet). I hunted in an older pair, I still had around, and did not experience the "fire/burning sensation". I know it's probably me and my feet with these particular boots, but .... it upsets me that I spent that much money on these boots and I have had nothing but problems with them. I have tried a few inserts and they did not alleviate the "fire/burning" sensation.

I stopped at Kenetreks Headquarters, as I passed through on my way home, but they were out of the Mountain Extreme NI in my particular size until December. The question I have is: My foot measured a size 11 (w/ Kenetrek sock(s) on) and with a size 11-1/2 my toes just barely touched the inside of the toe box. Should I go with a size 12, so my toes do not touch the toe box on side hills or steep downhill treks? The reason I ask, was the gentleman at Kenetrek stated I needed more room between my toes and the toe box, so that my toes do not bang against the toe box while coming down steep hills or side-hilling.

I also went to a local REI store and tried on Scarpas. The Scarpas I had in mind had "mountaineering soles", which I interpret to mean the soles are harder/stiffer for more rocky terrain. I was not confindent in the sales person's responses to my questions regarding fit, boots size, toe bang, etc.

I am hesitant to purchase such an expensive pair of boots before asking others what their experience is or has been.

Thoughts or experience(s)? Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

If your toes hit the end the boots are either too short and/or they don’t fit through the instep and allow your foot to slide around.

 

[vanish]

Learn to heel lock while tying the laces. Solved the toe bang problem for me.

Ill try to describe... Place your foot in the boot, then press the heel into the ground at a 45, while keeping your foot at a 90 to your leg. Tie those laces TIGHT. When done properly, your foot should not slide into the toe box anymore.

Certain brands/materials of socks give me the foot burn problem. I haven't figured out the answer yet.

 

[CUElk]

Learn to heel lock while tying the laces. Solved the toe bang problem for me.

Ill try to describe... Place your foot in the boot, then press the heel into the ground at a 45, while keeping your foot at a 90 to your leg. Tie those laces TIGHT. When done properly, your foot should not slide into the toe box anymore.

Certain brands/materials of socks give me the foot burn problem. I haven't figured out the answer yet.

Yes. I had that issue with my work out shoes until I figured out the problem and laced up correctly. Still happens some in my work boots if I have an active day with a lot of walking. Never been an issue with my hiking boots.

I would definitely go up a 1/2 size if your toe is touching. Then do a proper lace up and you should be fine.

 

[oldillini]

I found that the "surgeon's knot" was helpful. Check out these sites for ways to lace up your boots to help.

How to Lace Hiking Boots | REI Co-op

Increase your comfort on the trail by learning some simple lacing techniques that can help you deal with heel slipping, pressure points and toe pain.

www.rei.com

Know This Hiking Boot Lacing Technique: The Heel Lock | Appalachian Mountain Club

Follow this hiking boot lacing technique to keep your boots snug on any adventure.

www.outdoors.org

 

[thomas89]

^^^ These methods have been huge in helping lace my boots and being comfortable.

I don't know if I have odd shaped feet, but certainly need to focus on finding a "perfect" pair next summer. Most seem to be designed for "fat" feet, not thin bony ones like I seem to have. I have been running in minimalist style shoes the past 10 years or so, so my feet have splayed a great deal so I need a wide size, but this often leads to too much space in the heel cups in the boots I've tried. Thinking next year I'll try some of the higher end boots to see if one has a wider toe box and narrower heel.

Breaking in a pair of Salomon's, I noticed a "slap" sound (kind of like a flip flop) and noticed I could move my heel freely up/down a good 1/4 inch. Cinched the boot down so tight I gave myself a case of tendonitis across the top of my foot. Found the heel lock lacing method and have had zero issues since.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Feet, as Randy’s podcast went over in detailed are unique to the person, so one solution won’t work for everyone.

That said, my experience hiking and skiing has been that toe bang is cause by having boots that are too big and by not correctly seating your heal in the pocket.

Ski boots have 4 buckles the second from the bottom, instep buckle, is the only important one you honestly don’t really need to buckle the rest unless you’re trying to carve on steep ice. Same goes for boots you need to lace the instep tight.

I go down 1 to 1.5 sizes in hiking boots and go down 1.5 to 2 sizes in ski boots.

On a foot measure I’m a 10, that’s the size I get for loafers, 9- 9.5 for boots or running shoes, 8-8.5 for ski boots.

Stiff alpine boots are essentially ski boots... folks even hunt in plastic ones. You do the same kinds of movements. That stiff shank is there so you can “hold and edge” side hilling on steep crappy terrain.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Easy test, put a boot of each size on, kick the wall, which hurts more.

 

[rustednuts]

Your foot is sliding that is why you are hitting the toe box and getting the burning feeling on the bottom of your foot. Look at heel lock lacing. I have the lowa Tibet’s and run a oboz insole, the raised arch helps to keep my foot in place.

 

[Brauee20]

As others have said, try adding a heel lock to your laces if your not. I learned the hard way how important a heel lock was climbing around on ballast for 12 hours a day at the railroad. First year I was miserable until an old head showed me how to properly setup my boots. It was night and day.

 

[Wildabeest]

The burning sensation is most likely due to cutting off blood circulation to your foot. That could be due to your boots being in general too tight, or more likely, pressure points. I’ve developed that problem in both my ski boots and running/walking shoes over the past year. Unbuckling my ski boots on the lift and tying my walking shoes super loose helps a lot to prevent it. I’d suggest you try some of the alternative lacing patterns posted above to see if that relieves the pressure points. You’re likely tying the boots super tight to help with the toe bang, which is then causing the burning (and apparently not helping with the toe bang).

I find that Kenetreks run a bit wider than other boots. You may want to consider that 1/2 larger (12), but in a narrow. I have a 12N in the Mountain Extreme 400, but my problem is heel blisters vs. toe bang. My left foot measures a 11-1/2 on one foot and a 12 on the other, but I’ve worn 10-1/2 in every shoe I’ve bought for the past 30 years. I’d never had my foot measured until I went to the Kenetrek store in Bozeman since I just assumed I new my size. I had quite the debate with the guy working there about my size. He initially put me in a 12M and it felt way too big. The 12N fits and feels really good, but I need to figure out the heel blister problem or get something else. I got the same advice at the store as you did about sizing big to avoid toe bang.

 

[JMG]

Thanks for the input. I will use it.

 

[Oldskool67]

Fit for YOUR feet and proper lacing is more important than the brand. Any of the higher end brands are nearly equal, it’s all about which fits you best. Also don’t skimp on a proper insole. In my opinion it is worth every penny to get custom orthotics. At the very least get something like a Super feet etc to fit your type of feet.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Be careful about lacing too tight, as this causes other problems, mainly aching caused by excessive pressure on the bones on the top of your foot.

There should be about 1/2” space between the end of your toes and the front inside of the boot. If this gap is less than 1/4”, your boots are too short and can bruise your toes and even have nails come loose.

I suspect this is not your problem, but rather not enough pressure on the sides your feet just ahead of your heel, and behind the ball, which fails to lock your heel, as others have said.

I would suggest a narrower boot, such as an actual narrow size, or even a regular that runs narrow in that particular make/model. Even if you feel a very snug fit along the sides of your arch, this usually does not create issues when hiking. What you mainly want to watch out for in a narrow is inadequate width around your toes.