NEW SITKA Ambient 75

Attn. Idaho Muzz. Hunters


New member
Feb 11, 2004
Idaho muzzleloader hunters, you are about to loose the only unlimited muzzleloader Mule Deer hunt in S.W. Idaho.

As you all know the unlimited (lower) muzzleloader hunt in unit 45 in recent years has grown dramatically in popularity. As of last year, there were over 500 hunters in the hunting area. It is crowded to the point that a lot of people believe the mass of hunters is actually training the deer to avoid the area where hunting is allowed until the season is over. Needless to say, the success rate there is now very low.

To remedy the problem, IDF&G told us in the Idaho Statesman that they propose to move that hunt to unit 52, and while there are fewer deer in unit 52 the unit is bigger and has more public land, so hunters could spread out and have a better overall hunting experience. However,what they chose not to disclose is that along with the unit change they are going to restrict this hunt to traditional muzzleloaders only. While I have nothing against the traditional guys and their weapon choice, when you look the total numbers, they are only a small portion of the total
muzzleloading hunters in Idaho. Additionally, when you factor in that scopes are not legal for inline muzzleloaders, there is no big difference
in the amount of game taken. Really, what the F&G department is doing is excluding a large group of hunters to cater to a small group. With the
continued growth and popularity in muzzleloading, the department should be creating more muzzleloading hunts in more units for types of enthusiasts.

Basically, the Idaho Fish and Game is telling the muzzleloader hunters of Southern Idaho that if you like to hunt with an inline muzzleloading rifle, even though your not using anything but
open sights, you must now compete against the
centerfire rifle hunters with their high power scopes and their multiple shot capabilities, in the any weapon and general season hunts.
This decision would be wrong and unfair, and frankly their approach is nothing short of underhanded.

At this point their exclusionary plan is almost complete and there is only one chance to object. Your time to speak up is this Wednesday night at the Fish and Game headquarters on 600 South Walnut Street in Boise. If you feel this is as wrong as I do, you must attend and voice your concerns. Not to mention the half-truths and secret keeping B.S. game they are playing on the hunting public who pay their salaries.

Again the final Meeting is this Wednesday March 24th at 7:00pm. If you plan on speaking to oppose this unfair elimination of your last Unlimited Muzzleloader Only Hunt, you must show up early and sign in on their roster.
Fairchase, most Idahoans feel the same grief when it comes to F&G and their so called "proposals". Fish and game do what they want to do regardless of how the sportsman view it. Like I have said before, their proposals are already in print and public opinion is simply a formality. They hold these meetings just to see how well we either accept or reject the changes. Maybe Moosie can give his $.02 since he is the head of DHI but I don't think any public input will do any good at this point except raise a foul stink.
FairChase... I'm not sure Exactly where I stand, But I will be at the Fish/Game meeting with Wylee from this site. I will be wearing a White Hat so you should be able to find me.

I'm there on Behalf of my own interest and to report to DHI on the Findings.

I'm not a MUZZ hunter (Not really.. but I am going to CO to hunt deer this year with one...
) and am going to use an Inline.

I'm going to Ask some Questions now, Not to Piss ya off, But to help me understand :

Riddle me back this Fairchase....

1. How are they telling you to use your Inline with guys with scopes/high power ?

Isn't it legal to use a Scope in an ANY WEAPON open General hunt even on a Muzz ?

2. "However,what they chose not to disclose is that along with the unit change they are going to restrict this hunt to traditional muzzleloaders only."

Didn't they State that they were going to change the seasonto Traditional ?

3. How much "ESS" accurate is Traditional then Inline ?

4. With them goingto a traditional and Pissing people off... Wouldn't that just UP the chance for people willing to go Traditional and either people go that way or it leaves a Huge area Open to a few hunters ? (Sounds like I'm going traditional ;) )

5.Not to mention the half-truths and secret keeping B.S. game they are playing on the hunting public who pay their salaries.

What does that mean ?

Thanx for the Post !! I'll be there in Full swing Listening like A good BOY. I hope you give them hell since you're so fired up.

If you're up for a BEer or a Snack Before hand, I'd be willing to meet ya at the RAM at 6PM . What-ya-think ?
Thanks for the reply Moosie.
As to your questions, let me try to answer them.

1) The way they are telling us is by giving us zero opportunity to have our own hunt.

2) No.

3)Both can be very accurate at the ranges normally shot with only open sights. Let me say, the limiting factor is not the rifle design but the lack of telegraphic sights.

4)If you like others telling you how to hunt,
then this is good, right?

5)This shows my anger around question #2

Moosie, I have a friend who is going to speak at the meeting as I can't attend. I promised him I would mention this topic on the fourms before the meeting Wednesday night, to let people know what they are loosing and to bring in support. Thank you very much for the invite to the Ram. I'll have to take a rain check. let me us know your impression of the meeting, please. Thanks again.
This year the F&G has done a poor job of informing the public about these proposals. A couple months ago the F&G said there wouldn’t be many changes to the 2004 deer season. What a joke, there are going to be more changes to the deer season this year than there has been in a long time. Most hunters don’t even have a clue about what the F&G is up to and I think that is sometime what the F&G are trying to do. The F&G does listen to hunters that go to there meetings but only a handful of hunters show up to these meetings so hunters often don’t have a large enough influence on the final decision.

The F&G has been switching a number of muzz hunts over to traditional muzz hunts in the last few years. They also have a proposal for the muzz controlled hunt 75* that would cut the tags from 400 to 200 and turn that into a traditional muzz hunt. Muzzleloader technology needs to be limited because there is a big difference between the latest inlines and a traditional muzzleloader with black power and a round ball. Many of the new inlines can shoot flatter than a 30-30 and are every bit as accurate. A round ball isn't going to be nearly as accurate or have the down range power of a sabot. Also traditional muzzleloader seasons restrict motorized vehicles, which make a big difference in some areas. Scopes do help on longer shots but a scope isn’t that big of a deal for shots under 150 yards.

The point I was trying to make is, the way muzzleloader hunting is growing in popularity we should be asking for new muzzleloader hunts of both types all over the state. Not taking them away with out telling people. Imagine the uproar we would hear if F&G took away a bowhunters opportunity to use a compound bow during archery season and just printed up the new regs. It just wouldn't happen, because bowhunters have a huge voice, and they speak up for themselves.
Here is another way to look at the situation, if centerfire rifle hunters are too efficient at taking deer F&G dosen't try to make those weapons obsolete. They control the season length, the amount of people, the timing of the hunt, etc. I think the muzzleloader hunter deserve the same curiosity. Don't you?
The F&G is trying to pull a sly one on all the hunters this year not just the muzzleloader hunters. I agree with you that there should be more muzzleloader opportunities for both inlines and traditional. I just think that there isn't a very big difference between the new inlines and an open sighted high power rifle.
Why should guys with INlines be able to hunt in the Muzzleloader seasons? Why did they decide to start muzzleloading? Likely because they saw the new "user friendly" technology and they saw the "special hunts".

If they just like hunting with inlines, they are free to do it within the anyweapon seasons. Why should an inline have a special season?

What is next, a season for Center fire guys that shoot .25 caliber rounds with fixed power scopes? And another one for guys that shoot .308 caliber with Adjustable Objectives and belted cases?
BrianId, I think you're right about the changes. I'm nopt sure which ones are good and Which ones are not. thats why I'm going to the Meting so Even if I don't stand up and tell them like it is, I can Hear alot of sides on the Issues and Be better informed.

Fairchase, Your friend isn't Steve alderman is it ? I'm guessing he's standing up to talk too. I'm meeting with him before the meeting to hear his take on the proposal.

Also, Fish and Game is trying to prompote Hutner Opertunity (The way I understand it.) I'm split both ways. If they do like you proposed and Start limiting tags. Where will it end ? Will it be a Next Oregon ? AZ or NV ? I like the Fact that I can buy a Tag over the Counter and Still go out and Hunt. Once tags get reduced, My hunts go into Draws and I only hunt every couple years. I like the Idea of some places being open to hunters, Hell Even 1 million of them. Cuz ya leave the Road ya leave most of them behind.

If they restrict anything, they should take out the 4-wheelers and Horses :D But once I get Older I'll fight hard against that. till then I'd like everyone to hoof it like I do

I will update you on what I find out.....