Attack on the Feds independence

[Big Fin]

I know we agree on more than we don't. Yet...

I have hardened, for right or wrong, on the opinion that it is far, FAR more important to be able to weigh the two shit sandwiches and reach a conclusion about which one is better, even if only marginally, than it is to throw up your hands and declare them equally terrible. They are not.

Yes, both parties listen to the most extreme edges of their base. Yes, both are more concerned with winning than with the long term direction of the country. And yes, both are neck-deep in fraud and corruption, which I believe is intrinsic to politics and always has been. None of that is in dispute. But despite all of that, you still have to choose one or the other.

If you refuse to make that difficult choice and instead take the easier route—picking someone who has no realistic chance of being elected—you prevent any appreciable correction from ever occurring. In effect, you doom the country by opting out while convincing yourself you took the moral high ground.

If everything and everyone sucks, then what’s the point? That kind of defeatist mentality absolves you from the much harder work: sorting through the nuance, making a judgment call, and attempting to change the course, however incrementally. Declaring all options equally bad is not insight, it’s disengagement.

Is a pendulum swing ideal? No. Clearly not. But given the system we actually have, not the one we wish we had, it remains the best available alternative.

OK, on this post we disagree. In fact, I disagree so much I wrote a long dissertation of how much I disagree. You make a lot of implications in that post, whether you are intending to or not. After reading my reply, I see no sense in posting a long dissertation, as it makes no difference. You've stated your opinions on it.

I just leave it with my disagreement with the statements made, the premises it seems to come from when I read it, and the implications it draws. We each have our life experiences that have formed our views. They differ in this case.

The attack on Fed Independence, a great example of the trends that concern us, is a small speck on a huge map of uncertainty.

 

[406dn]

On a more serious note, after seeing a few JD Vance interview clips I want to know how much we are spending on eyeliner on top of the already high spray tan budget.

JD's eye liner is covered as petty cash under Kristi Noem's make up, and costume budget.

 

[Irrelevant]

OK, on this post we disagree. In fact, I disagree so much I wrote a long dissertation of how much I disagree. You make a lot of implications in that post, whether you are intending to or not. After reading my reply, I see no sense in posting a long dissertation, as it makes no difference. You've stated your opinions on it.

I just leave it with my disagreement with the statements made, the premises it seems to come from when I read it, and the implications it draws. We each have our life experiences that have formed our views. They differ in this case.

The attack on Fed Independence, a great example of the trends that concern us, is a small speck on a huge map of uncertainty.

I would encourage you to post it. You may not change my opinion, but you'll likely shift it. One of our fundamental tenets is open debate.

 

[406dn]

Earlier I mentioned median and average household wealth. Here is a link of some of the wealthiest countries in the world, showing both their average and median wealth.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-top-20-countries-by-average-vs-median-wealth/

 

[BuzzH]

Earlier I mentioned median and average household wealth. Here is a link of some of the wealthiest countries in the world, showing both their average and median wealth.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-top-20-countries-by-average-vs-median-wealth/

That's about what I figured.

The wealth disparity is staggering yet nobody seems to mind. Also, I would argue that those in the 70th percentile and below a good chunk of their net worth is their home. Something that has becoming increasing difficult for those below median net worth to even consider buying into. I'm tired of those that bought into the market a long time ago saying American workers just aren't trying hard enough. That's just not true and what you posted illustrates that.

Secondly the other problem with concentrated wealth is what it buys, and that is undue influence over the majority. Certainly shields them from doing right by the majority. No longer do politicians have to be accountable to the middle class, they don't give a shit about your small contributions to their campaigns. Their problems are not your problems and frankly they just don't care. They're worried about themselves and ONLY interested in landing the whale that will fund their campaigns. They aren't going to let their whale donors get away, isn't going to happen unless reform in a meaningful way happens.

It's no accident and should be no surprise that the middle class and median wealth has declined the way it has over my lifetime. Makes only one thing, and that's total sense based on our policies to favor the top 10%, and that maybe a bit overstated, more like the top couple percent.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Bottom line up-front: we pay a decent amount of taxes, but life is relatively worry-free. 10/10 recommend gov't funded through taxes, strong social programs.

27% of my overall gross income goes to taxes and I'm pretty damn happy with what I get in return, to name a few things: paid maternity leave (15 weeks prior to birth), paid parental leave (40 to 69 weeks after birth), paid paternity leave (5 to 9 weeks), free health care, subsidized daycares, free elementary and secondary schooling, cheap post-secondary studies, social security, Canada Pension Plan, Employment Insurance, etc. I also can't get fired because I called the President Prime Minister a .pdf protector.

I think something people don't understand is that if you make 260k, you don't pay a combined prov/fed tax rate of 47.5% for your total income (tax brackets below), it means that your earnings are progressively taxed per tax bracket, whatever % per tax bracket isn't tallied to the max for your gross income, your income is separated in tax brackets where that bracket is taxed at the bracket's rate.

We also don't have the American "hustle" culture where everyone seems to be overworked. We have strict employment laws and regulations to mandate federal $17.75/hour minimum wage (some Provinces at $19+), minimum paid vacations, sick leave, working hours, etc. We enjoy a lot of paid holidays and overall have a much better work/life balance. I remember on HT a few years back a thread where some members were mocking Canadians and our "aversion" to work and the numerous paid holidays we had, to this day I still don't understand the obsession with making work your life and entire personality. My job allows me to maintain the lifestyle my family and I enjoy, that's it, nothing more. I strive to be the last one in and first one out of work. My employer cannot use this against me as long as I complete my work during regular work hours, up to 37.5 hours a week, everything outside of that is over-time that my employer has to approve and pay me if I cannot reasonably perform my duties within these hours. There are obviously nuances with contractual work, shift workers, etc., but overall it's more or less the same. Yes, Canadians LOVE their paid time off to spend time with family, friends or afield!

Here are the Saskatchewan tax brackets for 2025:

• 10.5% on the first $53,463 of taxable income.
• 12.5% on the portion of taxable income over $53,463 up to $152,750.
• 14.5% on the portion of taxable income over $152,750.

2025 Federal Income Tax Brackets & Rates

• 15% on the first $57,375 of taxable income.
• 20.5% on the portion over $57,375 up to $114,750.
• 26% on the portion over $114,750 up to $177,882.
• 29% on the portion over $177,882 up to $253,414.
• 33% on the portion over $253,414.

That's about what I figured.

The wealth disparity is staggering yet nobody seems to mind. Also, I would argue that those in the 70th percentile and below a good chunk of their net worth is their home. Something that has becoming increasing difficult for those below median net worth to even consider buying into. I'm tired of those that bought into the market a long time ago saying American workers just aren't trying hard enough. That's just not true and what you posted illustrates that.

Secondly the other problem with concentrated wealth is what it buys, and that is undue influence over the majority. Certainly shields them from doing right by the majority. No longer do politicians have to be accountable to the middle class, they don't give a shit about your small contributions to their campaigns. Their problems are not your problems and frankly they just don't care. They're worried about themselves and ONLY interested in landing the whale that will fund their campaigns. They aren't going to let their whale donors get away, isn't going to happen unless reform in a meaningful way happens.

It's no accident and should be no surprise that the middle class and median wealth has declined the way it has over my lifetime. Makes only one thing, and that's total sense based on our policies to favor the top 10%, and that maybe a bit overstated, more like the top couple percent.

I think that the vast majority of Americans just have no clue how extreme wealth inequality is and how much worse it has gotten in the last few decades. It should be one of the most important political issues in our nation, affecting so many others that people are up in arms about, like affordability, social security, etc. But it's not even on the radar for most and is thought of as a fringe issue, only cared about by Bernie and other left-wing whack jobs. Folks on the left and right should be very concerned, IMO.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I think that the vast majority of Americans just have no clue how extreme wealth inequality is and how much worse it has gotten in the last few decades. It should be one of the most important political issues in our nation, affecting so many others that people are up in arms about, like affordability, social security, etc. But it's not even on the radar for most and is thought of as a fringe issue, only cared about by Bernie and other left-wing whack jobs. Folks on the left and right should be very concerned, IMO.

Agreed. The disparity and related issues are exacerbated by the fact that those with power, influence, and political standing are very wealthy and can't really relate to working from paycheck to paycheck ... let alone the reality of lack of affordability.

The Congressional delegation from Montana is comprised of multimillionaires, way beyond the definition of wealthy!

 

[406dn]

That's about what I figured.

The wealth disparity is staggering yet nobody seems to mind. Also, I would argue that those in the 70th percentile and below a good chunk of their net worth is their home. Something that has becoming increasing difficult for those below median net worth to even consider buying into. I'm tired of those that bought into the market a long time ago saying American workers just aren't trying hard enough. That's just not true and what you posted illustrates that.

Secondly the other problem with concentrated wealth is what it buys, and that is undue influence over the majority. Certainly shields them from doing right by the majority. No longer do politicians have to be accountable to the middle class, they don't give a shit about your small contributions to their campaigns. Their problems are not your problems and frankly they just don't care. They're worried about themselves and ONLY interested in landing the whale that will fund their campaigns. They aren't going to let their whale donors get away, isn't going to happen unless reform in a meaningful way happens.

It's no accident and should be no surprise that the middle class and median wealth has declined the way it has over my lifetime. Makes only one thing, and that's total sense based on our policies to favor the top 10%, and that maybe a bit overstated, more like the top couple percent.

My sister had a very successful career in corporate America. Frankly, I worried for her since her work hours were crazy long, and her outside hobbies were essentially non existent. When she was around 50, the company she worked for was merged into another corporation. She was given a package to stay until the takeover was completed. She gave herself six months to figure out what her next chapter in life should be.

It took her very little time to decide that retiring was her best next chapter. Most of her colleagues continued with their professional life.

She has told me more than once, that most people that make it to the top, are never satisfied with what they are earning. They continue to lust after greater wealth. Just the other day, she was telling me that she had heard from a colleague that he was finally and totally retired, from a couple director's boards he remained on. The guy had just turned 80. He owns homes all over the country, but until he was 80, he could not decide he had enough wealth.

 

[Bonasababy]

I think that the vast majority of Americans just have no clue how extreme wealth inequality is and how much worse it has gotten in the last few decades. It should be one of the most important political issues in our nation, affecting so many others that people are up in arms about, like affordability, social security, etc. But it's not even on the radar for most and is thought of as a fringe issue, only cared about by Bernie and other left-wing whack jobs. Folks on the left and right should be very concerned, IMO.

Ditto.

The push of misinformation and distraction from reality is well designed and working well on many. I don't think they are ignoring it as much as accepting what they hear as fact--when it isn't.

I might have used this before in this thread, but how many know taxes today on the wealthy are much LOWER than they were during Ronald Reagans term? Every time I bring that up people accuse me of making it up. It was actually over 80 percent into the 1960's, Reagan dropped it down to around 50--and it's in the high 30's now--with of course oodles of options to lower it even more.

Agree as well with the risk--when the realization comes. That risk might depend on personal views. The pendulum swinging too far towards socialism and throttling growth and the economy is something you'd think those on the right would worry about--but they don't seem to.

The disparity between real tax rates, the huge difference in pay between top level officials and workers, the sky high cost of insurance and medical care--many on the right call any fixes for them as way too much, but not fixing them is a risk that could make eventual actions much worse than trying to work on them, IMO.

 

[SAJ-99]

He owns homes all over the country, but until he was 80, he could not decide he had enough wealth.

And I would bet that he thinks all those houses are his and should be passed on to his family. What both sides can agree on is the belief that "all my stuff is mine forever and should be passed on the kids". The tax avoidance of generational wealth transfer is a core problem. It locks up wealth and makes it less productive. We have productive people waiting for parents to die so they can collect the windfall. We have families that own multiple houses with some getting used only occasionally at best. Both sides of the aisle have set policies to ensure that huge amounts of that wealth never gets taxed. It is a great topic for dinner conversations with mixed opinions.

 

[Irrelevant]

most people that make it to the top, are never satisfied with what they are earning. They continue to lust after greater wealth.

This has always been true. Have you ever watched a squirrel in the fall? Hoarding assets, whether it be nuts or Benjamin's, is part of a long evolutionary strategy. It takes very deliberate efforts to tell your inner squirrel to "chill" you have enough nuts, go enjoy a sunset or two before cancer sets its hooks.

 

[westbranch]

I met a guy a couple years ago that was a successful executive and had just retired at 66, he was budgeting $50k a month to pull out of investment accounts. He said "It's pretty Fing hard to live on $50k a month". He did laugh after he said it.

 

[F250]

Comrade Sanders used to hate millionaires… until he became one ( pretty good for a guy who has never held a real job). Now he hates billionaires.

 

[BigHornRam]

Comrade Sanders used to hate millionaires… until he became one ( pretty good for a guy who has never held a real job). Now he hates billionaires.

Inflation is wrecking Bernies shtick.

 

[BuzzH]

Comrade Sanders used to hate millionaires… until he became one ( pretty good for a guy who has never held a real job). Now he hates billionaires.

He's as old as dirt and worth about 2-3 million.

Not exactly crushing it.

 

[NDGuy]

 

[BigHornRam]

He's as old as dirt and worth about 2-3 million.

Not exactly crushing it.

Your as old as dirt, and claim to be worth 2 to 3 million. You also so claimed to be in the 98% net worth.

Then you say......
"It's no accident and should be no surprise that the middle class and median wealth has declined the way it has over my lifetime. Makes only one thing, and that's total sense based on our policies to favor the top 10%, and that maybe a bit overstated, more like the top couple percent."

Crushing it, or not crushing it?

 

[BuzzH]

Your as old as dirt, and claim to be worth 2 to 3 million. You also so claimed to be in the 98% net worth.

Then you say......
"It's no accident and should be no surprise that the middle class and median wealth has declined the way it has over my lifetime. Makes only one thing, and that's total sense based on our policies to favor the top 10%, and that maybe a bit overstated, more like the top couple percent."

Crushing it, or not crushing it?

Speaks volumes what little it takes to be in the top 2% doesn't it?

Thank you for clarifying the problem with concentrating wealth.

 

[MTGomer]

10.5% on the first $53,463 of taxable income.

• 12.5% on the portion of taxable income over $53,463 up to $152,750.
• 14.5% on the portion of taxable income over $152,750.

2025 Federal Income Tax Brackets & Rates

• 15% on the first $57,375 of taxable income.
• 20.5% on the portion over $57,375 up to $114,750.
• 26% on the portion over $114,750 up to $177,882.
• 29% on the portion over $177,882 up to $253,414.
• 33% on the portion over $253,414.

My god. Is there a standard deduction or do poor people really pay 25.5% on every dollar earned?