DRAFTSTUD
Well-known member
Looks like with his house of cards falling apart Mike Vick will plead Guilty tommorrow. Never been to a dog fight, but the things they do must be done with a Heart of Stone. John:BLEEP:
Atlanta Quarterback
- Thread starter DRAFTSTUD
- Start date
noharleyyet
Well-known member
I'm sure his 5 attorneys explained the math of pleading rather than trial & sentencing.
Whiskers
New member
and the fact that he can get back into football
MNHunter
Well-known member
maybe not. If he pleads guilty to illegal gambling, he's done for life.
MNHunter- I don't think he is pleading guilty to gambling. It sounds like the plea agreement is for felony dog fighting which would allow him back into the NFL. However, it also sounds like he will do some jail time so this season is done and the NFL will probably hold him out at least one more year. That should make it 2010 (at the earliest) before he can even start back with the NFL. If he does plead guilty to gambling...he will be done for life I believe. He may be done anyways.
wyomingtim
Member
Nah, he will play for the Raiders down the road. After all, Al Davis doesn't want to pay for his drafted players, so he will have to pick up some cheap help when he can.
I love the morons making the excuse of this is just his culture. Well, I grew up down south. I had lots of black friends, and knew many many others. None of them ever had anything to do with dog fighting. Now roosters are an entirely different matter with all those Cajuns.
I love the morons making the excuse of this is just his culture. Well, I grew up down south. I had lots of black friends, and knew many many others. None of them ever had anything to do with dog fighting. Now roosters are an entirely different matter with all those Cajuns.
MNHunter
Well-known member
MattK, you are right, I read parts of the plea. He is purposely avoiding the gambling part. However, any team that does let him come to camp when he's out of the joint will most likely see the wrath of not only peta but pet owners in general. I think the negative media that will follow him will ensure he never plays in the NFL again.
cjcj
New member
Why would Gambling be a problem?[illegal gambling on dogs?]why would that ban him? as long as its not N.F.L. or pro sports... he can go to Vegas all he wants... I see plenty of pro ball players in Vegas
cjcj- Gambling is a really touchy area with pro athletes in gerneral. I don't know about football specifically and what is in their agreement but it gets real dicy. I just read an article about the referee in the NBA caught gambling...part of their (NBA officials) agreement is they will not do ANY gambling except horse races in the off season. Of course the one who was caught, bet on his own games but he is giving names of 20 others who have gambled to some degree (according to the article). The NBA is in for a lot of problems in the near future as I see it.
MNhunter- I agree but I think there are some owners out there that would take a chance on him (one year contract). The raiders have made a habit of taking chances (it's even part of their mystique)...so have the cowboys. This may be one of those cases where it crosses even that line and the publicity would overwhelming. Listening to some of the people in the Atlanta area, you would think dog fighting is normal and nothing should happen to Vick. It's hard for me to believe.
MNhunter- I agree but I think there are some owners out there that would take a chance on him (one year contract). The raiders have made a habit of taking chances (it's even part of their mystique)...so have the cowboys. This may be one of those cases where it crosses even that line and the publicity would overwhelming. Listening to some of the people in the Atlanta area, you would think dog fighting is normal and nothing should happen to Vick. It's hard for me to believe.
Dangerous Dave
New member
What Vic and his boiys did was way out of line and they all should be punished, big time. God, what a waste. Still,this dogfighting indictment and guilty plea could have unexpected ramifications for any activity that either PETA, the Humane Society or the Defenders of Wildlife thinks should be banned (even though in Vic's case, they are justified.)
Look, I don't want to get on here and yell "Fire", but we should all know who's scalps these organizations want to hang on their belts next: Anyone Who Hunts. They've even told me so to my face.
I was squirming as I was listening to a Sportstalk radio program who had a director of a Humane Society USA chapter on the air to explain the "Shadowy, subculture of animal tourture", and "The perpetual, macho, testosterone-soaked thrill of killing animals that's been going on far too long." Anyone with a functioning brain in their skull also took it as a scathing indictment of hunters in general. (Dogfighting - Deer Hunting: Same Thing.)
With Vic pleading guilty, these organizations just got a big shot in the arm, big exposure, justification of their existances and yet another reason to come after us sooner or later. I've had hands-on experience opposing a dove hunting ban in 2002 propositioned by both the HSUSA and the Defenders of Wildlife. Without resorting to swearing, maybe all I should say is there isn't enough soap in the world that can remove the stench I got on me from dealing with these people. Heads up...
Look, I don't want to get on here and yell "Fire", but we should all know who's scalps these organizations want to hang on their belts next: Anyone Who Hunts. They've even told me so to my face.
I was squirming as I was listening to a Sportstalk radio program who had a director of a Humane Society USA chapter on the air to explain the "Shadowy, subculture of animal tourture", and "The perpetual, macho, testosterone-soaked thrill of killing animals that's been going on far too long." Anyone with a functioning brain in their skull also took it as a scathing indictment of hunters in general. (Dogfighting - Deer Hunting: Same Thing.)
With Vic pleading guilty, these organizations just got a big shot in the arm, big exposure, justification of their existances and yet another reason to come after us sooner or later. I've had hands-on experience opposing a dove hunting ban in 2002 propositioned by both the HSUSA and the Defenders of Wildlife. Without resorting to swearing, maybe all I should say is there isn't enough soap in the world that can remove the stench I got on me from dealing with these people. Heads up...
DD- I was listening to ESPN radio when they first brought the indictments. They were speaking to Joe Horn (now a teammate of Vic's). Joe Horn equated dog fighting to deer hunting. The commentator after the interview and even some during the interview pointed out and made a special note to point out deer hunting is easily justified as a management/ conservation tool. He also said dog fighting has no justification...pure ego. Just another reason to not go to an Atlanta Falcon game...
DRAFTSTUD
Well-known member
Matt, Joe was not the only one, one of the Basketball players said basically the same thing "What about the people who shoot deer". Then there was Roy Jones Jr. "It's a Sport" Do we see a theme here? John
cjcj
New member
If I hear that crappy equation....Vick vs. deer hunting I would burn out the redial trying to get thru and straighten out those ignorant morons!
Does anyone Torture deer? electrocute?or hang?..them?.
Does anyone Torture deer? electrocute?or hang?..them?.
Draft- I saw there was an interview with some basketball players and Roy Jones Jr but I changed the channel. Did the interviewer dispel any of the hunting vs dog fighting or did they just leave it at that? I know on ESPN radio the interviewer (I believe it was Eric Casselius (sp.)) pointed out the difference and went on to say hunting is altogether a different deal. I understand your fear with HSUS and DofW and their overall goal but I think there is still a fairly large leap for people to take between dog fighting and deer hunting. I would say most people (in fact a large majority) would not see these two issues as being the same. When they asked what the most hated "sport" was dog fighting topped the list with a vast majority.
DRAFTSTUD
Well-known member
Matt, These were one sided snippets of Professional Sports Players speaking of the Deer Hunting and Dog Fighting similarites. What I think is if a Sports Figure can just by playing a game convince the youth of today to buy a $150.00 pair of Sneakers, what kind of Message can he turn into the Gospel with the youth who will grow into the swing voters and activists of tommorow, just with his misguided words to make Mike Vick into a Victim. Just look at the stand Atlanta residents have split with did he do wrong or did'nt he? John
MNHunter
Well-known member
NFL should let Vick play after sentence, NAACP says
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press
ATLANTA -- An NAACP leader said Michael Vick should be allowed to return to the NFL, preferably the Atlanta Falcons, after serving his sentence for his role in a dogfighting operation.
"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta chapter. "We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country."
White said the Falcons quarterback is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.
On Monday, Vick said through a lawyer that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.
Three Vick associates have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and say Vick provided nearly all the gambling and operating funds for the "Bad Newz Kennels" dogfighting enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs, raising the possibility of the animal cruelty charges.
Last month, state and local leaders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People urged the public not to rush to judgment in the Vick case. The civil rights organization said animal rights groups, talk radio and the news media were vilifying the embattled athlete, and that his team and corporate sponsors were prematurely punishing Vick.
White said the Atlanta chapter supports Vick's decision to accept a plea bargain if it's in his best interest, but he questioned the credibility of Vick's co-defendants, saying an admission of guilt might be more about cutting losses than the truth.
"At this point, you're not looking at guilt or innocence," White said, referring to the possible harsher sentence Vick could have received had he taken his case to trial and been found guilty. "You're thinking, 'What I better do is cut my losses and take a plea.' But if he saw this as the best thing to do at this point for his future, then I think he made the correct choice."
White said he regretted that the plea deal will mean all the facts of the case might never be known.
"Some have said things to save their own necks," White said. "Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being."
White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.
"His crime is, it was a dog," White said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press
ATLANTA -- An NAACP leader said Michael Vick should be allowed to return to the NFL, preferably the Atlanta Falcons, after serving his sentence for his role in a dogfighting operation.
"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta chapter. "We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country."
White said the Falcons quarterback is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.
On Monday, Vick said through a lawyer that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.
Three Vick associates have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and say Vick provided nearly all the gambling and operating funds for the "Bad Newz Kennels" dogfighting enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs, raising the possibility of the animal cruelty charges.
Last month, state and local leaders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People urged the public not to rush to judgment in the Vick case. The civil rights organization said animal rights groups, talk radio and the news media were vilifying the embattled athlete, and that his team and corporate sponsors were prematurely punishing Vick.
White said the Atlanta chapter supports Vick's decision to accept a plea bargain if it's in his best interest, but he questioned the credibility of Vick's co-defendants, saying an admission of guilt might be more about cutting losses than the truth.
"At this point, you're not looking at guilt or innocence," White said, referring to the possible harsher sentence Vick could have received had he taken his case to trial and been found guilty. "You're thinking, 'What I better do is cut my losses and take a plea.' But if he saw this as the best thing to do at this point for his future, then I think he made the correct choice."
White said he regretted that the plea deal will mean all the facts of the case might never be known.
"Some have said things to save their own necks," White said. "Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being."
White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.
"His crime is, it was a dog," White said.
cjcj
New member
I never had a deer bring me my paper, or chase off an intruder
|oo
|oocjcj- I hear they do just that in TX. Just kidding.
MNhunter- I don't think it's unfounded to be wary of the "dog fighting vs. deer hunting" equation that is being tossed around to defend Vick but I've read several blogs where people have tried this argument. The people who use this relationship are mostly called idiots. Even people who don't hunt said there is a "big difference". I think it's great to be cautious and definitely add credence to making sure hunting should be kept as clean as possible. These athletes plant a seed of thought, it gets knocked down, but it only takes one slob "hunter" to solidify what these athletes have said. There is very little leeway in the realm of hunting for bad PR...this is but one more example.
MNhunter- I don't think it's unfounded to be wary of the "dog fighting vs. deer hunting" equation that is being tossed around to defend Vick but I've read several blogs where people have tried this argument. The people who use this relationship are mostly called idiots. Even people who don't hunt said there is a "big difference". I think it's great to be cautious and definitely add credence to making sure hunting should be kept as clean as possible. These athletes plant a seed of thought, it gets knocked down, but it only takes one slob "hunter" to solidify what these athletes have said. There is very little leeway in the realm of hunting for bad PR...this is but one more example.
Dangerous Dave
New member
Hope I didn't come off as an arrogant Chicken Little eariler, and hope I wasn't stealing this thread off into wacko-theroy land. But, if you look at my "Location" header, it may dawn on many of you that I live smack-dab in the middle of ground zero of the great, liberial "thinkers"... yep, the Bay Area. This irrational comparison (the dog fighting/deer hunting thing) was born here-and is tossed in my face a dozen times a week by those who know what a committed deer hunter I am... as if they've finally got me backed up against a wall. (Step right up for your daily argument, Clownboy! LOL!!) As if whatever they can dream up will change my world or how I choose to live my life. They walk away almost sad and dissolutioned that a deer hunter would actually AGREE with them that what Vic did to dogs was inhuman.
OF COURSE there's NO comparison to what Vic did and what deer hunters do. I just wanted to stress that people who have antihunting agendas might talk to you rationally and will agree with you to your face that hunting is benificial to wildlife and is one of the most ethically-advanced activities there is;... nevertheless -how they vote, what they say to their Congressperson, discuss with the local HSUSA and what they do with their money will astound you.
OF COURSE there's NO comparison to what Vic did and what deer hunters do. I just wanted to stress that people who have antihunting agendas might talk to you rationally and will agree with you to your face that hunting is benificial to wildlife and is one of the most ethically-advanced activities there is;... nevertheless -how they vote, what they say to their Congressperson, discuss with the local HSUSA and what they do with their money will astound you.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
The V. P. of USSA was on O'Reilly last night speaking out against the comparison of deer hunting to dog fighting. His communication skills were a disappointment to say the least. Anyone else catch it?
