ASAT vs Sitka

[RJH]

For the last few years I have been using the ASAT (All Season All Terrain) camo for my archery hunts and have had good luck - last season actually reached out an touched a small cow elk that is probably still running. I have never been one who wants to make a fashion statement but the Sitka Optifade looks really appealing - anyone compare the two? I have a lot invested in my ASAT garments, a guy here in Denver makes them and he is not cheap either. So if I am going to invest another $500 or so dollars would like some more intel. With all the gear I have bought this year my elk hunt, assuming I shoot one, is already about $700lb. In addition, since I will be hunting in Northern Colorado and if I decide to take the leap what pattern has worked best for you?

Ron

 

[Devil Diver Down]

If the ASAT is working well for you, why not stick with that? The word I hear (from this board and others) is that the Sitka gear is very durable, well made and the customer service is pretty good. If you're already getting that level from your ASAT, I don't see a reason to pop for $500 more to change patterns. I can think of many, many things I'd rather spend my $$$ on rather than doubling up on gear.

Of course, I think old style woodland camo would work if the hunter wearing it is working hard enough and makes some luck of his own. But if you're really itching to spend five hundy, send it to me

 

[StrutNut]

I like the ASAT pattern better then the Sitka. I am also looking at the Kuiu gear as well. I have been using NatGear stuff. I like the pattern but the quality of garment is bad. I am replacing gear as it wears out with better stuff that will last longer.

 

[RJH]

I have my ASAT clothing made at day one camouflage out of englewood colorado. Good quality, good prices.

 

[Big Fin]

Interesting to talk to the folks involved in the Optifade patterns that Sitka uses. Earlier this month while in Delaware, we got the run down on what went into developing the original Open Country Optifade pattern and last year, the Forest Optifade pattern.

First and foremost was the emphasis that the patterns were NOT designed to have human eye appeal or fashion. The Open Country Optifade, the first Optifade pattern, was designed based on their research into what/how animals see. It was also designed for the notion of trying to blend in while hunting open spaces at ground level. It was not designed with the backgrounds for treestand hunting when the deer is looking up. The new Optifade Forest pattern was designed from the perspective of a deer looking up, with a sky background.

I know most hunters buy camo based on what looks good to them. Understandable. I never gave that much consideration to the research that had been done on how deer see and what they see when they look at objects. Was surely an interesting session to listen to that science.

What animals see and how they see it is way different than what we see. Therefore, camo patterns that are made with that in mind, probably have a completely different performance than those made without that perspective. Some patterns probably sell a lot better, as from a marketing perspective they are designed to appeal to the human eye. Not sure if the "human eye appeal' patterns perform that well on animals.

The designers at Gore explained that what animals see are outlines of images, more than the image itself. They designed the pattern to not only blend into the background found in most western hunting, but to blur the outline of the image we represent as hunters. If the outline of the hunters is a sharp contrast to the background, it is very easy for the animal to make out the hunter as a blob. The intent of the digital pattern you see in Optifade is to blur the image by having no solid colors, no repitition, no geometry, or anything else that provides a sharp outline, especially on the edges where the outline of the clothing contrasts/blends with the background.

It was interesting to see how many clothing designs they had rejected, such as pockets, zippers, etc. that created symmetry to the pattern. Symmerty is not a natural occurance in the outdoor world, so they try to avoid symmetry in their clothing designs. They continue to balance the clothing functionality designs against the camo pattern functionality designs.

They also spent a lot of time analyzing what the animal sees of a hunter at eye level, not elevated as in a treestand. I had really given no thought about the differences of what animals see with an earth background versus a sky background. That resulted in different pattern schemes, color mixes, and color variations than most patterns you see that are trying to make you look like an oak tree or a sage bush.

Using their research on animal vision learned from the Open Country Optifade pattern, they then came out with the Optifade Forest pattern for treestand hunters. Same principle of blurring the outline of the hunter against the background the animal will be seeing, in that case the sky background with a tree behind them.

No matter what pattern you use, the scientist at Gore were very adamant that lack of movement is critical. Optifade Camo is designed for the purpose of blending your image and the edges of that image with the backgrounds you are hunting in. If you are moving the intended purposes of blending your outline with that of your background will be mitigated.

And, we all know that playing the wind properly lets us get by with a lot of stuff no matter what pattern. And, if we play it wrong, no pattern will matter.

 

[Craig S.]

Amen!

I used to buy camo based on what I saw, until I realized I was being ignorant.

I also used to buy cover scent & 99% Scent-A-Way spray, until I saw a police dog smell a 3 pound load of vaccum packed Maijuana inside a vehicles gas tank that was full. :W:

I also bought some hounds of my own & watched them trail dry ground in Arizona. Talk about making your scent-a-away products look worthless. It's so acute we don't even get the concept! You aint' fooling a deer or elk's nose with that stuff. Sit still & pray for GOD to push the wind into your face.

 

[RJH]

Great insight Randy - thanks

 

[wingman1]

Amen!

I used to buy camo based on what I saw, until I realized I was being ignorant.

I also used to buy cover scent & 99% Scent-A-Way spray, until I saw a police dog smell a 3 pound load of vaccum packed Maijuana inside a vehicles gas tank that was full. :W:

I also bought some hounds of my own & watched them trail dry ground in Arizona. Talk about making your scent-a-away products look worthless. It's so acute we don't even get the concept! You aint' fooling a deer or elk's nose with that stuff. Sit still & pray for GOD to push the wind into your face.

I disagree! when your out in early hot bow season, you are a walking talking scent bomb. and the better your cleaned up ie... Shower, rubber boots, scent lock suit, new set of camouflage every day then you will reduce the size of that scent bomb radius. That will minimize your scent footprint and reduce your residual scent trail in the area. You do not need fancy soap. Just lots of good old fashion arm and hammer. And as far as camo lol. I am going to kill an elk this year with bluejeans and a red polo just to prove this camouflage thing is way over rated.

 

[Big Fin]

......... rubber boots, scent lock suit, new set of camouflage every day then you ............... And as far as camo lol. I am going to kill an elk this year with bluejeans and a red polo just to prove this camouflage thing is way over rated.

You trying to make us laugh, Wingman?

I'm not going to disagree with you that camouflage is lower on the list of what makes or breaks a hunt, when compared to playing the wind and staying motionless.

But, a scent lock suit? I mean, dang, you are down on camo patterns, but you get fired up about wearing a scent lock suit.

You gotta be messin' with us on that one. I would take the bluejeans and red polo shirt over the scent lock suit.

 

[noharleyyet]

Insert Greenhorn comment here.

 

[wingman1]

I have killed archery bulls wearing nothing but a scent lock liner. They help. It all adds up. Ask the 20" bear I killed this year in Ak about scent lock.

 

[StrutNut]

I would say that I have been busted by scent more then busted by camo. I have also had deer come in from down wind and a cow elk follow my footsteps. Not sure the Scent Lock suits are all they were advertised to be but I do use the spray stuff any chance I can as well as scent waffers. I got the NatGear stuff when I used to Prostaff for a outdoor company as we had a buying program with them for a while and their stuff blended in to the MN woods well. Late season hunting with no leaves can be tough. I am very interested in the advancements of camo patterns and what animals see. I agree with it can help to have your outline broken up. Any help when 15-20 feet up in a bare tree will help. I got my son some ASAT stuff on clearance and looking at the ASAT, Kuiu and Sitka stuff for me - not because of the pattern but the quality of garment. When you hang from a tree in single digit temps it can get cold and I do not like bulk. There is a lot of science put into patterns and garments that will benefit us as hunters. The question is is it worth the extra price. That question is even more important for those of us that are on a modest income and a $200 jacket is a major investment.

 

[sweetnectar]

BWAHAHA You sent lock boys better get a scent lock suit for your bows. Don't believe me....just pick up your bow and start sniffing. Ya those limb savers smell good and rubbery. Oh and what is that smell near the end of the bow. Yes, axle grease. And I do like the mixed smell of bow string wax and fletching glue. The list goes on and on and we can't even smell even close to the amount elk can smell. Besides, I can only hold my breath for so long before I have to exhale and to elk its like humans are farting from both ends.
The best hunting advice that I've ever received is "Keep your nose to the wind, watch your back track, and don't squat with yer spurs on."
That said it is good to keep your scent toned back so your not stinking up the country side as bad but that falls under the watch your back track part of the advice.

As far as camo, I was hopping to try and shoot a bull in my underwear if conditions warrant. My only problem is I'm so white that I'd have to wait for snow to blend in and that's just too cold.

 

[Mudranger1]

I would say that I would love to look good in some optifade but I can not see spending that kind of money...It is kind of outrageous if you ask me...