Are we still a Christian nation ?

[rjthehunter]

These are a couple of very true and salient points.

To the first, I absolutely agree in separation of church and state. We go to church, my wife is a pastor, and we live our lives as followers of Jesus Christ. All that said, I would be entirely opposed to any form of mandated prayer schools, the workplace, etc. I have freedom to take a moment of silence and say a prayer at any point during my day. I do not need nor want it to be mandated. Someone else is entirely free to practice the religion of their choice, and I have no desire to infringe up on that, just as I have no desire for them to infringe upon my choice.

Your second point on organized religion is very interesting and something I have spent a lot of time pondering. I won't speak to any other religion, because I would likely be parroting ignorance and mistruth. I can unequivocally say there is a segment of Christianity that fits your statement. The unfortunate irony there, is Christianity is not meant to be about following rules and procedures and ceremonies. It's simply about loving God and loving those around us. If you do this, it's pretty tough to live a life of hate and judgment. In the converse, it's pretty hard to live a life of hate and judgement while loving God and those around us. Ergo, a Christian not necessarily the same as a follower of Christ.

I grew up in a catholic family. We went to church most Sundays and I went to a catholic elementary and highschool. I wouldn't change a thing about it. I still go to church occasionally but not as much as I used to. I struggle with the fact that it feels as though religions hate on each other. The fact of the matter is that we all believe in a God and should stick together and not bash one another or treat them as less of a human because they're Lutheran instead of catholic.

 

[Muskeez]

My definition of a Christian is simply: I'm a sinner, God forgives me, and I'm gonna try to live my life for Him. I'm actually quite shocked at the number of non-Christian comments above. I guess I thought we were mostly a Christian nation, (As in most people in the US being Christians) although I have seen that changing more the last couple decades. I am the first to admit that I lead a sheltered life here in the Midwest and I like it that way. I believe only God the Father could have created this universe and all of it's complexities. Satan is the one that tempted Adam and Eve and every sin since that time is because of the fall of man, and us making bad choices. I believe that the Bible is the only rule book and that it is 100% true and accurate. If we have no rule book to follow then everyone makes up whatever rules they want to live by on their own. Whatever feels good to them is fine but each person has different rules and we then have troubles. We all fail miserably and sin every day but thankfully we have God's grace (undeserved love) so that if we believe in Him we will get to go to heaven when our time on this earth is done. Many people ask for Gods help when times get tough, but ignore Him the rest of their lives, then blame Him when things don't go their way. I'm glad that we live in a country where we are all have freedom of religion.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I posted my first post a bit too quickly. I edited it and added a couple thoughts at the end.

 

[Trial153]

A lot of todays push back comes from the in your face evangelicalism that started after the second world war. The idea of being a " Christian nation" stems from that rhetoric. As happens with many push backs it tends to swing to extream of whats its pushing against.
For my part I feel that a healthy separation of religion and goverment is good thing.

 

[rwc101]

Well, I thought this was going to be an absolute disaster, but I am pleasantly surprised that it wasn't. The internet has made me jaded.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised by the tone of this conversation. This is a topic I am passionate about but rarely see a lengthy dialogue that doesn’t descend into name calling or diatribes. Good job!

I think one of the reasons why this topic stirs such deep emotions is that it touches us all deeply regardless of denomination association or religious affiliation.

The topic of our own faith is one that addresses our identity and by association touches our understanding of worth and value.

I sympathize with all of you who have been hurt by those who identify as Christian.

It is a sad and cruel reality that many of who openly associate ourselves with Christ, allow our own humanity to show through as we speak of others out of the bias of our own understanding rather than respecting the dignity of another person who is created in the image of God.

 

[Europe]

Excellent posts and points of view and after 28 posts we have all acted like ladies and gentlemen, expressing our views, without taking pot shots at others. For that I thank you. I can't resist saying this. "It is a very christian thing for you to do " (-;

Yesterday when this was discussed I shared a story that I will share here. My great granddaughter turned in a paper that allowed the student to pick a subject they wanted to write about. After it was turned in the teacher told her she needed to write about something else because a paper mentioning religion might make some the other students uncomfortable. It was during this conversation that politics came up and I said I was a registered Republican. And it was really funny one lady actually gasped and said I never would have guessed that , you seem like a nice person (-: By the way, my great granddaughters paper was about swings in public attitudes, the roaring twenties, then pretty conservative, then the 60's, it really wasn't about religion but was about religion influences during those times or the lack thereof

Gerald Martin, I agree with your post, including the "couple of thoughts" added to the original post. I agree 100% with your last sentence and it was my position yesterday during our discussion.

Also, what originated this conversation yesterday is everybody in the room is at, or near, their final curtain call. I found it interesting that some who "never believed" suddenly wanted to know more.

Thank you gentlemen for your responses

p.s. I forgot. During our discussion the Darwin theory came up and then the movie "Inherit the Wind". All of us old folks remembered the movie, not one of the staff ( men and women in their 20's and 30's ) had heard of it (-: their loss

 

[Hem]

I'm in the camp there IS some sort of higher spirit. Ends there for me.
Whatever rocks your boat.
My wife is Christian...I'm reminded frequently how certain comments I utter are offensive.

 

[Gerald Martin]

April, I believe the desire to know God is written into our deepest sense of being.

It is completely reasonable for someone coming face to face with their own impending death to want to know if there really is more to life than material existence.

To me, it affirms what Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 3:11. “He has set eternity in the hearts of men .”

Personally, I believe that what is described in Genesis, as man being created in the image of God is exemplified across all cultures, races and ethnicity. We answer the same questions in a vast variety of ways, some healthy some destructive but our desire to worship and relate to someone greater than ourselves, our sense that there is right and wrong, our hatred of injustice and desire to see what we understand to be good thrive, all move me to conclude that the fact that there are questions means there must be an answer. My search has led me to a faith that Jesus Christ is that answer both in his teachings of how God wants to relate to us and us to him, his example of his life on earth and his work in making it possible for us to be reconciled to God through his death and resurrection.

I also recognize that no denomination or individual has a complete understanding of what is described as “ the mystery of the Gospel “ and a lot of evil has been done by men who think they are advancing the kingdom of God but are really only advancing their own interests at the expense of others.

 

[Brandon270]

I've been born and raised Catholic and continue now at the age of 30. My wife and I notice that most masses we go to, the church is half full and the average age is 60+.

Like stated above the community aspect and programs ran by our local Catholic churches are very beneficial for our community and would probably surprise people how welcoming they really are.

I'll admit it only takes a priest or two to give their personal opinion to people to turn them off or away from the church. Our local Catholic churches actually speak fondly of other religions and even do community group events with other non Catholic churches.

I also agree there are plenty of people who go to church but aren't any better of a person than a non believer who spends their Sunday with their family. If you don't carry out what is being taught like caring for ALL people, then you're kind of missing the point.

 

[Jasher]

I might be one of the few that thinks religion no matter which one. It's a belief in hope. Hope that when we are gone that there's something more. Hope that it will be everything we dream of. I think when we are done here that's it. You get out of life what you put into it.

People are born the way they are. Yes there's influence from parents and others but you choose your path it's not set in stone from the moment you are born. If God chose everything we would do they would only make Ford trucks. Lol had to do that.

My biggest belief is live and let live. We share this world with every person and animal on it. There was millions before us and will be millions after us.

 

[Ben Long]

I don't want the government telling me or my kids how to pray. People should believe what they choose to believe. If a faith is based only government propaganda, what good is it? I don't want the government telling me there is a god or there is not a god. that's between me and God. Not sure how we got into this topic on a hunting site, but there you go. Theocracies have an ugly and bloody history.

 

[Addicting]

One of the things that bothers me is we used to say the pledge of allegiance every morning in every school I attended. It only stopped when we were in high school. In late 80’s there were atheists who sued schools over the separation of church and state. Stating it violates the law to say the 1954 revision line “one nation under God”. Since then the pledge hasn’t been revised to remove what the WWII generation added. I feel teaching it has been abandoned to the last 3 generations.

I can’t help but wonder how that has impacted us negatively as we progressed thru the Information Age where everyone’s opinions are a click away.

 

[cedahm]

I'm in the camp there IS some sort of higher spirit. Ends there for me.

I lean close to this myself. Was raised ‘Minnesota Lutheran’ - which is probably the most vanilla version of Christian religion. I haven’t attended a church service in many many years outside of weddings and funerals, but I have had the opportunity to travel the world extensively and have been lucky enough to see and occasionally participate in many expressions of faith in many cultures. It has always fascinated me and the pure numbers of people aligned with a common system of beliefs is impressive and unlikely enough that it makes me wonder if something/some “spirit” really exists.

I also feel that faith and religion are very different things. I am an engineer by degree - so probably not surprising that my ‘faith’ is in logic and science. I don’t feel I have a ‘religion’. All in all I agree with the poster who said that religion fills a void for many many people. There is a deeply ingrained human response that wants to ‘belong’ to something, and the church/temple/mosque/etc allows that with minimal barriers.

To the original question, I don’t believe we are a Christian ‘Nation’, but I also don’t think we ever were. We took many principles of governance from Christian ethos, but were very careful (and smart, IMO) to separate church from state.

I’m mostly amazed we’ve made it this far in the thread in such a civil fashion

 

[Addicting]

I don't want the government telling me or my kids how to pray. People should believe what they choose to believe. If a faith is based only government propaganda, what good is it? I don't want the government telling me there is a god or there is not a god. that's between me and God. Not sure how we got into this topic on a hunting site, but there you go. Theocracies have an ugly and bloody history.

How does any of the language used by our fore father’s in April’s original post tell you how to pray? You are free to make any decisions you want regarding to how and who your beliefs are in.

 

[Ben Sellers]

We are not a Christian nation by law or regulation, but we have been one in practice to one extent or another since the nation began. According to Wikipedia, almost 75% of the US identifies as Christian as of 2016. We could go over what fraction of that 75% are “good” Christians based on some criteria or other that will vary from person to person. I think that would end up getting this post deleted. I think it’s great that that many people identify as Christian and hope that they will progress in their faith, whatever point they are at now. Now for those who are not, neither laws or peer pressure can force them into faith. It’s a personal thing that no one should attempt to force. In my opinion, those attempts to coerce people only strengthen their resolve.

 

[Randi]

I was raised in a Pentecostal church and we are one group of people who enjoy our services

I do belief. But, at the same time, I thank God that I live in a country, like ours, where there is a very clear separation of church and state. We can choose our religion, Catholic, Jewish, Methodist, whatever and practice it without fear of prosecution

or, dont go to church at all, if that is your choice and again without fear of prosecution.

April, to be honest, I was just glad to see you post

 

[Hem]

I lean close to this myself. Was raised ‘Minnesota Lutheran’ - which is probably the most vanilla version of Christian religion. I haven’t attended a church service in many many years outside of weddings and funerals, but I have had the opportunity to travel the world extensively and have been lucky enough to see and occasionally participate in many expressions of faith in many cultures. It has always fascinated me and the pure numbers of people aligned with a common system of beliefs is impressive and unlikely enough that it makes me wonder if something/some “spirit” really exists.

I also feel that faith and religion are very different things. I am an engineer by degree - so probably not surprising that my ‘faith’ is in logic and science. I don’t feel I have a ‘religion’. All in all I agree with the poster who said that religion fills a void for many many people. There is a deeply ingrained human response that wants to ‘belong’ to something, and the church/temple/mosque/etc allows that with minimal barriers.

To the original question, I don’t believe we are a Christian ‘Nation’, but I also don’t think we ever were. We took many principles of governance from Christian ethos, but were very careful (and smart, IMO) to separate church from state.

I’m mostly amazed we’ve made it this far in the thread in such a civil fashion

Probably started with me with my mom being raised Catholic and my father Protestant. Hippy kids got lost in the middle during the sixties.
Live an let live. Be a dull world if we all were the same.

 

[Panda Bear]

I was raised in a Pentecostal church and we are one group of people who enjoy our services

I do belief. But, at the same time, I thank God that I live in a country, like ours, where there is a very clear separation of church and state. We can choose our religion, Catholic, Jewish, Methodist, whatever and practice it without fear of prosecution

or, dont go to church at all, if that is your choice and again without fear of prosecution.

April, to be honest, I was just glad to see you post

Randi

Pentecostal made me think of the movie "Leap of Faith". However; the ending would give one pause and think o.k., maybe .

Interesting posts. I also am glad everyone has taken the high road. Reading through, someone ask how this got on a hunting forum and I wonder that about most threads in this section of the forum. Regardless some are educational, some are fun, and some certainly makes one stop and think.

 

[Southern Elk]

This country was founded on Christian beliefs and principles. For that I am thankful. So many countries around the world are governed by other belief systems that don’t allow their citizens the same level of freedom.

I won’t ever try to force my beliefs on anyone else. That’s a personal choice. I hope that people understand that for Christians there is only one God and only one way.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

We should be tolerant of other religions, but we will never believe that there are other gods.