Anyone using rattlesnake vaccine?

[OntarioHunter]

When the snake venom vaccine for dogs hit the market a few years back there was quite a bit of controversy. For one thing, the labratory that developed it apparently rigged their test trial data. They took a lot of heat for that. Also it was not much good for anything but one of the diamondback species (eastern as I recall). Anybody using the vaccine for their dogs? I have heard the snake orientation course works very well for teaching hunting dogs to avoid snakes. Anyone have any experience with it?

 

[Salmonchaser]

I have not done it but have talked to a couple of fellow Chukar hunters who have. They swear by it.

 

[338win]

I got it for my dog. My friends spouse is a vet and said that dogs with it rarely need antivenom if they get hit by a rattle snake.

 

[Luke_with_a_lab]

I looked into it this spring. My vet said they don't give it because its not proven to work.

 

[jrabq]

My vet recommended it years ago so my dogs get it. I just took his word for it, did not do any research. One dog has run over two western diamondbacks, but did not get hit, so I have no real experience if the vaccine works.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I have not done it but have talked to a couple of fellow Chukar hunters who have. They swear by it.

Vax or orientation course? I have heard the course only takes about forty minutes and is very effective except for the odd dog that just hates snakes with a passion. I had a Lab once that would attack and kill any skunk she could catch. Always biting them right in the arse too. Man, I thought she would die, foaming at the mouth, gagging, choking, rolling around on the ground. But she never stopped doing it. Some dogs are the same way with porcupines.

 

[JEL]

Our vet recommended against it so we haven't. He said it isn't proven as effective in MT and could do more harm than good. Our lab has learned to just avoid the things which there are quite a few of around the farm where she resides with my son.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Vax or orientation course? I have heard the course only takes about forty minutes and is very effective except for the odd dog that just hates snakes with a passion. I had a Lab once that would attack and kill any skunk she could catch. Always biting them right in the arse too. Man, I thought she would die, foaming at the mouth, gagging, choking, rolling around on the ground. But she never stopped doing it. Some dogs are the same way with porcupines.

The orientation course, my response was not well written, my vet also said the vax was not a good idea. My shorthairs seam to have skunks figured out and we haven’t had a bad porcupine stick in a couple of years but Molly hates grizzly and goes at them every chance she gets. Thankfully she recalls well.

 

[Hem]

We live in snake country. Our Three Forks vet encourages the vaccine. Dogs routinely get tagged locally.

 

[jejack26]

When it first came out my vet who been practicing since 1962 told me not waste my money. After probably 5 years he changed his after seeing dogs coming in bit that had been vacinated. He recommended and now I do.

 

[pointingdogsrule]

When it first came out my vet who been practicing since 1962 told me not waste my money. After probably 5 years he changed his after seeing dogs coming in bit that had been vacinated. He recommended and now I do.

This seems to be common sense. Those that have seen vaccinated vs unvaccinated responses are the ones to believe.

 

[Wallydeuce]

Our vet said our 6lb Maltese probably wouldn't survive the vaccine. She's just too small. Avoidance training has been terrific though. It was $125 and lasts about an hour depending on the number of dogs going through the course. They used a female that had her poison glands removed and kept her on a path that the dogs had to negotiate and two other rattlesnakes kept in fine mesh cages. With variable intensity shock collars on the dog they would increase the intensity the closer the dog got to the snake. It was surprising to see some dogs just didn't get it. Getting the crap shocked out of them and still trying to get close to a pissed off rattler.

We did a refresher class this year and without even putting the collar on her, as soon as she saw/heard/smelled one, she wanted no part of them. She also serves as my early warning system. I can't hear them unless I'm looking right at them. A lifetime of shooting without hearing protection will do that.

About a quarter mile from our cabin last summer a "neighbor's" vaccinated Lab died from a timber rattler strike to his face.

 

[OntarioHunter]

A field trial dog trainer I talked to several years ago had a young dog get bit in the face by a rattler during a competition in Missouri. He shoved five or six benadryl down the pup's throat and that kept the swelling down enough for it to survive till he got to a vet. I keep a small container in my upland vest.

When hunting in snake country I make sure I have a local vet's number in my phone for fast dial. Keep in mind that the antivenom is very expensive with not a long shelf life. So it's often only on hand regionally. Call the vet and they can be working on finding/getting a dose while you're headed to the clinic with the dog.

 

[flatcoat]

I do the vax, its cheap without much fear of side effects and she swears by it for our region?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Vaccination and snake avoidance clinic.

 

[Salmonchaser]

I find these discussions interesting. I’ve a bachelors degree in science, better half has a doctorate, we both hold vets in high regard, Mds just need to know one species. Vets have an endless list. This looks like a great example of keeping an open mind because it just depends!

 

[David58]

My vet in soggy wet Oregon (correction, my dog's vet) was a prof at the University of Arizona before coming to OR. He was pretty much the man when it came to dog/snake interactions, and dealing with the results. I called him when we moved to NM in 2015 after our new vet recommended the vaccine. Doc Pete laughed - after the laughter ended he launched in to the unscientific development of the vaccine, and its unproven efficacy. Six years hasn't brought any changes to the fact that the basic premise of a vaccine to protect against a venom (which is effectively enzymes rather than germs) and that only one subspecies of rattlers was used to develop the vaccine (and the vaccine chemistry varies within a subspecies according to geographic location).

I didn't go for the vaccine, and after my own information gathering, confirmed I didn't spend my money, wisely.

Snake aversion training? Also been there, done that. That tired old Western Diamondback was a big one, almost 5' long, and gave one cursory rattle when he came out of the box. He'd been through it all before, and just lay there quietly while the dogs came and sniffed and got the snot shocked out of them. Two visits to the rattler, and one to a bag of shed skins. $90 per dog, so that morning evaporated $270. I say evaporated because just a few days later the dogs killed a bull snake in the back yard.

So....once the anthills start to get active I figure the snakes are coming out from brumination. That has me pulling back from hikes in the canyons and along the canyon rim, and head up into the mountains at 8500' or higher - no guarantee, but fewer of them.

As an aside, according to the snake expert vet, most dogs get hit when just cruising along, and they run over/past the snake. The bite then is a defensive bite, and is usually dry or with little invenomation (citing the opposite case, if your three weener dogs have a snake cornered on the back porch, somebody's gonna git hit bad). He said that in over 2000 dog/snake "interactions" (dogs bit by snakes) in his time at the university, they lost one dog.

Vets will prescribe the vaccine because it "might" help. I figure the odds of it helping are less than the odds of it causing harm. Did like living in western Oregon - rattlesnakes were few and far between.

 

[406dn]

All of my bird dogs have gone thru snake aversion training. Just yesterday a local dog club did their annual day of snake aversion training.

After some consideration, I passed on the vaccine. My vet was unconvinced it was effective. Everything I've come across yields the same conclusion.

Aside from the training, I try to be careful about avoiding areas with lots of snakes, until later in the fall.

 

[Ben Lamb]

It's cheap insurance for a hunting partner I value more than 90% of humanity. Our vet in Helena who focused on working & sporting breeds recommended it with the caveat that it's not 100% effective and dogs will still get sick, but this would likely give them a better shot at surviving.

Worth it for a being that loves you unconditionally, even when you miss the bird.

 

[CRMarks]

I just got the vaccine for my Britt and took her to a great local avoidance clinic. The avoidance training really worked, ran into a rattler the other day. The biggest thing I heard from my vet is that it buys you some hours of potentially reduced tissue damage, BUT the biggest issue is that antivenin stocks and supplies are so spotty across the vet community. So I will be calling ahead to the local vet to check wherever I'm going to hunt the week in advance.