Any GOT Viewers Here...

NR_Hunter

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SPOILER ALERT

That was so stupid. As much as she's struggled and chosen the right path this whole time, she finally has the thing done and THEN chooses to roast everyone? I hope this makes more sense in the books because this plot twist feels so unearned. Like, Prince Hans smiling under the boat idiocy. Geez.
Daneerys has been a horrible leader the entire series and never earned any of the power she’s got, and how she has behaved in victory shows that. I think it made total sense. She’s been about one thing, and one thing only: power. She’s basically a communist. Big on an ideology to end tyranny while actually a tyrant herself.

Also, the books to this point haven’t been written so maybe GRRM will go a totally different way.

This show is just bad tho. The Clegane Bowl was such a stupid fan service. That contributed nothing to any salient plot points. Arya running through the wreckage was a huge waste of time when we have 1 episode left.
 

noharleyyet

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Don't really know what the deal was last night during S8 Epi5 but our view kept buffering or semi melting the scenes to a near digital mess.....long episode...1hr33m made longer with the buffering

(obligatory spoiler warning) Apocalyptic denouement for some main characters.

The dragon crossbows needed a CDS...
 

Brian in Montana

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I agree with the original post. The show has turned into garbage.
Fantasy is not really my thing, but I do like plot-heavy stuff. As far as GOT goes, I guess I'm kind of a prude because I honestly got a little put out with the gratuitous nudity. A lot os it seemed so silly and obviously just thrown in foe the shock value. I think I watched 1.5 seasons and kind of lost interest. Well done show, what I saw of it, but not exactly my thing. I actually read more than I watch TV so I've thought about giving the book series a try. But I anticipate I might lose interest in that too.
 

beginnerhunter

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Dany hasn't always been about murdering innocent women and children. Punishing bad people too harshly? Definitely. But this sudden turn was a bit much. It would've made more sense in a heat-of-the-battle type scenario but not the way they did it. It's like the producers think the fans are stupid and needed to be pummeled completely with the "mad queen" narrative or we'd be upset when Jon or Arya kills her next week.

Side note: my prediction is Jon/Arya kills Dany and turns the throne over to Tyrion. Or Jon dies. Either way I think you see Tyrion as ruler with a sort of elder board overseeing him. Sansa rules north of course. Bran floats away because GOT couldn't think of any useful purpose for him. OR the Cranogmen show up pissed off they were left out of the show and kill everyone.
 

NR_Hunter

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Dany hasn't always been about murdering innocent women and children. Punishing bad people too harshly? Definitely. But this sudden turn was a bit much. It would've made more sense in a heat-of-the-battle type scenario but not the way they did it. It's like the producers think the fans are stupid and needed to be pummeled completely with the "mad queen" narrative or we'd be upset when Jon or Arya kills her next week.

Side note: my prediction is Jon/Arya kills Dany and turns the throne over to Tyrion. Or Jon dies. Either way I think you see Tyrion as ruler with a sort of elder board overseeing him. Sansa rules north of course. Bran floats away because GOT couldn't think of any useful purpose for him. OR the Cranogmen show up pissed off they were left out of the show and kill everyone.
If you’re just realizing now the writers think the fans are stupid you haven’t been paying attention. I actually think they got this turn in her character perfectly right.

In the past she referred to Robert Baratheon as Robert The Usurper like he was the bad guy when her old man was about to burn the entire city to the ground with wildlife. Not the sign of person who knows good leadership qualities.

She found out she was doing it with her nephew and was only upset that he had a claim to the throne.

Her whole “liberation” schtick was only a means to gain power. Like I said before, she’s basically a Bolshevik.
 

MinnesotaHunter

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I liked the turn, even though I thought it was clearly coming, she has seen her chances slipping through her fingers. I think you could see the cracks in her demeanor for a long time. It is a great analogy for the idea that "anyone can persevere through adversity, but power is the true test of character". If not for this what else was left to turn the plot? Pretty much just who sits on the throne at the end.

Not too be too much of a military dork, but you need to suppress the enemies air defenses, with artillery. They should have been throwing everything they had to keep the guys manning the crossbows heads down, and then bring in the dragon to destroy them once their threat is neutralized. Some amateur hour BS there.....

My theory is, Arya running through the streets was intended to show her realizing she now needs to kill Danerys (Green Eyes).
 

beginnerhunter

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If you’re just realizing now the writers think the fans are stupid you haven’t been paying attention.
Well, it seemed early on that they thought the audience appreciated nuance.

Dany admitted to Yara that her father was a bad man. I don't think we were meant to think that was a cold calculation, but a sincere understanding.

Someone mentioned it would've made more narrative sense to save the dragon murder for the moment she heard the bells (crossbows hidden in the city) and Dany panics and torches the city killing innocents and soldiers alike out of rage over the sudden loss of her dragon. That's the type of twist I could get behind. But instead the day was won and she said "meh, screw it I'll murder all these children anyway".

I'll agree to disagree.
 

NR_Hunter

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Well, it seemed early on that they thought the audience appreciated nuance.

Dany admitted to Yara that her father was a bad man. I don't think we were meant to think that was a cold calculation, but a sincere understanding.

Someone mentioned it would've made more narrative sense to save the dragon murder for the moment she heard the bells (crossbows hidden in the city) and Dany panics and torches the city killing innocents and soldiers alike out of rage over the sudden loss of her dragon. That's the type of twist I could get behind. But instead the day was won and she said "meh, screw it I'll murder all these children anyway".

I'll agree to disagree.
What you’re saying makes sense, but I still think they she was greedy for power.

I never liked Daneery’s character so I’m super biased. Seeing her turn into the villain I always thought she was, was really tasty.
 

MinnesotaHunter

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Well, it seemed early on that they thought the audience appreciated nuance.

Dany admitted to Yara that her father was a bad man. I don't think we were meant to think that was a cold calculation, but a sincere understanding.

Someone mentioned it would've made more narrative sense to save the dragon murder for the moment she heard the bells (crossbows hidden in the city) and Dany panics and torches the city killing innocents and soldiers alike out of rage over the sudden loss of her dragon. That's the type of twist I could get behind. But instead the day was won and she said "meh, screw it I'll murder all these children anyway".

I'll agree to disagree.
You can't claim to appreciate nuance, and then seek out the rational/comfortable narrative. I like the nuance of "the gods flip a coin every time a Targaryan is born" idea, and the stress and hopelessness of victory (remember everyone was already starting to believe Jon would be a better ruler), so she snapped. I don't think she saw herself sitting on the throne if there was a peaceful transfer of power, but maybe if everyone was so scared of her after she nuked the world....plus if she wasn't going to rule, I am not going to leave anything left; which happens to be why her father was going to do it.
 

jryoung

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I've been listening to the books on audible and am about halfway through book 2 now. It's been cool to have the foundations of the story refreshed in my mind through the books, contrasted with what is currently occurring. There are some components of the characters that has really held steady, and I think they've done a great job for the most part. Great series like this never wrap up well and being ahead of the books probably makes it even more challenging so I give them a bit of grace.

From the outset, they have always held to "in the game of thrones you either win or you die". There is a long list of those throughout the series that have sought the throne or stability of the realm and they have all perished. By this time next week there may be nothing left.

I like the way they have held true to the inherent behaviors of each based on their houses and now at the end we will see whether Stark, Lannister or Targaryan prevail.
 

beginnerhunter

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You can't claim to appreciate nuance, and then seek out the rational/comfortable narrative. I like the nuance of "the gods flip a coin every time a Targaryan is born" idea, and the stress and hopelessness of victory (remember everyone was already starting to believe Jon would be a better ruler), so she snapped. I don't think she saw herself sitting on the throne if there was a peaceful transfer of power, but maybe if everyone was so scared of her after she nuked the world....plus if she wasn't going to rule, I am not going to leave anything left; which happens to be why her father was going to do it.
All that is true. But I still think it needs to make sense in the narrative or you're just flinging plot points at a wall, shatting on your character development. Yeah we all knew she would turn, the "how" was ill-concieved IMO.

But why even wait for the bells in the first place? She still had a sense of ironic timing?
 

beginnerhunter

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I mean, I don't need to have all happy unicorn ending, just one that makes sense. If I didn't like the uncomfortable stuff, I wouldn't have sat through previous twists:

1) Ned Stark execution - shocking but totally in keeping with the character arcs.
2) Red wedding - shocking but made sense tactically.
3) Jon snow death - shocking but the Watch did what they thought was right. (Resurrection was a little deus ex machina)

Just seems to make her character too one dimensional.

But clearly I'm in the minority here and at home (the family I watched it with all loved it). I just hope GRRM or Sanderson executes it better.
 

Twolftg

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Well, it seemed early on that they thought the audience appreciated nuance.

Dany admitted to Yara that her father was a bad man. I don't think we were meant to think that was a cold calculation, but a sincere understanding.

Someone mentioned it would've made more narrative sense to save the dragon murder for the moment she heard the bells (crossbows hidden in the city) and Dany panics and torches the city killing innocents and soldiers alike out of rage over the sudden loss of her dragon. That's the type of twist I could get behind. But instead the day was won and she said "meh, screw it I'll murder all these children anyway".

I'll agree to disagree.
I think she did say as much before the battle. She was show sympathy to the generations down the line. She pretty much said this group is f*cked. Not that I excuse her for it.
 

NR_Hunter

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I feel like the Jon Snow death was the beginning of the decline of the show. Like we didn’t know he was going to be brought back to life, it was such a cheap trick and it was insulting to the viewers intelligence. The rest of the series has just be so deus ex machina heavy.
 

jryoung

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I feel like the Jon Snow death was the beginning of the decline of the show. Like we didn’t know he was going to be brought back to life, it was such a cheap trick and it was insulting to the viewers intelligence. The rest of the series has just be so deus ex machina heavy.
I know there's always deviations from the books, but I don't see how they could leave out that of the film. Sure they highlighted with more than it was in A Dance With Dragons, but to leave it out would have been a greater disservice.
 

beginnerhunter

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When I first read Jon Snow death I figured warging might play a role. Of course the show left most of that part out. But didn't know if JS would be back as himself or remain a direwolf. This was back when R+L was just a strong theory so there was a chance it wasn't true. Plus with fAegon in the mix you didn't know what would be true in the end. Still don't really I guess.

On GOT it would've worked better as a cliffhanger within a season so there wasn't so much time for the fans to overanalyze it and GOT to insist, pathetically, that Jon snow was dead forever.
 
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