Advice on horse usage?

[huntlife]

I want to add my 2 cents, plus ask a few questions.

My first elk hunting trip was 20 years ago. We had 5 guys and 2 horses and two mules. We packed into the Weminuche Wilderness in south Colorado. We went to Beaver Meadows (I think that's the name I saw on the map). We had one mule that would NOT cross a bridge. There was three bridges on the trail going to where we were. One guy had to wade three creeks on the pack in. One of the horses would go nuts if he didn't see the other animals. His owner was the slowest guy in the group. All the animals had went around a corner. The last one freaked out and started bucking. He fell of a cliff that was at least 100 feet high. He landed in a pool of water that was 4-5 feet deep. He was sore for a few days but he was ok. In the pic with the horses, hes the brown one in the back with no pack gear on. With those exceptions, the horses and mule were a huge help. With 5 of us, there was usually one or more guys that would be back at camp at some point during the day. He would take the horse to the creek for water, and there was one little hill side that we could graze them for an hour or two each day. We also had plenty of sweet feed for them. Without the horses, we never would have been able to get to where w were. The trip out was way better than the trip in. Looking back, I see several things we should have done different. It was a valuable learning experience.

We drove from west Arkansas to the trail head without stopping, except for gas and peeing! When we stopped, we got the horses out and walked them around for like 15 minutes. They handled the trip pretty dang good. My biggest suggestion is if your hauling horses long distances is make sure you have a slant trailer. It sure makes it easier on the horse.

Now, for my questions for everybody that has used horses quiet a bit. I am moving to Montana the end of this month. Ive had several horses, but I do not claim to be an expert. Far from it. I had thought about having a few horses for packing I and out. I will have horses. I really like them, even if I don't pack with them. Ok, first, if I use them to pack in, how hard is it to ride one of them from camp to where im hunting? I know it depends on the terrain and all that, but I believe I could get farther from camp and other people like that. Whats the down side to it? When I get to where I want to glass, I could tie it up and do all my glassing. I sure think I couls cover a lot of area like that. Ive read on here more times than I can count that the first part of elk hunting is finding the elk. Havin the mobility of using a horse would help, right?

The pic of the tent was out spike camp. The horns was from a bull that died the year before. And yes, we are from Arkansas, and we don't wear shoes much!!! Lmao!!!

 

[Gr8bawana]

At least llamas won't break your foot if they step on you.

 

[quarterhorse]

Assuming you use them on some trail rides during the summer and learn how to pack them the only downside is they take some time away from hunting. But they get you in and out in of an area with ease. If you like horses you probably will enjoy tending to them in camp. If you don't like horses and don't use them the rest of the year you are asking for trouble to take them hunting for a week per year. I usually take two when I leave camp. Most horses like to have a buddy and having a pack horse along is often times handy.

 

[huntlife]

I love horses. I've been bucked off of a few ��, and I've been stomped on by a few! I tried to rodeo for a couple years, bull riding mostly, but some bareback too. I've had quiet a few at home too. I do love them! I'll be riding as much as I can during the summer. That seems like the fastest way to get to know an area. As for packing them, I admit, I got a lot to learn. I've been watching every video I can find on the web. Lots to learn. Thanks for the reply.

 

[dmserpa]

Everything has been said here, but I didn't see anyone offerup the idea of a drop camp, doing this you could learn a little about what it takes to hunt with horses or mules. Hunting with them is a major undertaking, and unless you enjoy them don't even attempt it. I wouldn't hunt without my stock , but I use them year round volunteering doing trailwork for the forest service to keep me and them in shape. Owning horses and mules is a year round commitment and expense that not all can adapt to. Get some experience with a packer to see if you're cut out for working with stock

 

[drahthaar]

When I started walking away from huge bugling bulls because we didn't know if the trail in this basin or that basin was cut out to get the horses in, I knew I had to change up my hunting. You walk nine miles in the country I hunt, you just walked past more than one real nice bull. No more!!!

I did meet a guy that told me to call him if I need him to bring his horses to get a bull out. The only problem is, giving up a hunting spot!

 

[James Riley]

Flat land horses: I used to be a guide, packer and wrangler in the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness. When going in and out along various steep trails, my boss, Travis, would always point down to bleaching bones in the rocks below and tell of what happened. In one rodeo or another, most involved some client from back east who insisted on bringing his own horse. Often a Morgan, Arab or such, high bred, hot or warm-blooded, and expensive as hell. They were, by his own admission, wonderful horses. But you just don't bring a Lamborghini or a Harley to a Trials Bike Competition. There were many sets of bones along many different trails. Never saw one die myself, but I believed the boss.

What I have seen is the fact that bald faced hornets let the first horse go by after kicking their log. The first mule in the train usually gets a sting or two. The third, well, just make sure you know how to bail out up hill. It's a very bad place to be and you getting stung by the hornets is the least of your problems. They only weigh a fraction of an ounce each.

Baby Sitting: A hobbled horse can cut some serious country in the course of several hours. They can get all buggered up or lost, easy. Bears and whatnot can spook them. Cats can scratch them up. On a high line they still ring trees, expose roots, create a mud trench and generally scar the Earth for years to come. They need to be fed and what elk food they don't eat, you'll have to pack in. They need enough food to cover them such that it really cuts into what they can pack for you on the way in. If you leave early you end up leaving food there. Hopefully it's weed free. They often don't want to eat or drink when you feed or water them. They will, however, want to eat and drink when you are gone. Horses and mules love to find trouble to get into. Like a prisoner who has all day to think . . . Horses stink. Not that game minds it much but still, they stink. They clop along like cattle and make noise too.

The first, and by far the best outfit I worked for would pack the guides, guests and gear into elk country to a camp. We'd hunt on foot from there. When we killed something, we'd radio and the packer would come and get it and us. By the time I'd gut, skin/cape and quarter it, and got the camp ready and bear proof, it wouldn't be but a few hours or, at the most, a day, before the packer came.

At the other outfit, we'd take horses everywhere and hunt off them. The outfitter knew it wasn't the best but some guests insisted on it. We called it the “Yippi Kai Yea Kai Yo Syndrome”. Everybody wanted to carry a gun and ride a horse. It didn't do much for hunting elk though. The success rate was a suck rate compared to the other outfit.

I hunt on my own and I've packed lots of elk out on my back, many miles. The best case was, well, never mind, you wouldn't believe it. But now that I'm older, I appreciate my ponies. The good scenario would be hunting normal then going home to get them. That is what I do now, but I live in elk country. The best scenario would be to have a non-hunting friend stay back at the trail head to baby sit, with a radio. If you kill something, you call and give him a ten digit grid coordinate and come to you. In the mean time you take care of the elk.

Off topic, but we'd pack a rack upright and sideways, and not like the pictures where the rack straddles the horse. Just what I was taught.

Our bible was Packing in on Horses and Mules by Smoke Elser, but my boss' was doing since he was a boy and his dad was doing it since the early nineteen hundreds. Decker men, not Saw Buck.

I'd find some non-hunting friends or family to come along for a camping trip with the animals and just have them stay in the rear with the gear, until called. They have fun, you have fun and you have horses. Don't trust cell phones. Much of this country has NO coverage. Just make sure your horses are up for it. Get some dead bloody stuff from the local slaughter house or taxidermist and get them used to it. Plus, practice packing them before learning on the real deal. We'd only do horses about 180 pounds but we'd do mules 300 pounds.

One final thought: I really don't have the patience to lay on a horse when hunting but you can let them wander while you are on their back, let them graze and have their head, and wildlife you come upon will usually just look at you and then ignore you. You can wander right into a herd of elk or up to a moose and calf or a bull. The second you try to operate the horse though, the wildlife is gone. It's like they can sense something in the change of gate or in the horse. Somehow they know. I don't know how you'd shoot off the horse if you were hunting, without moving and giving it all away. I've done this several times but I wasn't hunting. I was just out setting up spike camps and taking a day or two off to wander around. It was pretty cool.

 

[fwagner]

I'm also from Iowa and my group (3 guys) have tossed the idea around more than once in terms of bringing our own horses or mules. We have decided, why replace one problem (packing meat out) with several other problems (extra gas, time, altitude sickness, etc.) caused by traveling with horses from iowa. We pay the outfitter to come take our elk to the processor. It costs $750 and we tip $100, so $850 total. It's expensive but they do a great job and it's worth it knowing the meat won't spoil, it can be warm during archery.

 

[Hatchie Dawg]

It sounds like you have you hunt situated with the packer but I will chime in on the llamas. I have hunted twice with llamas in a very steep, high area of CO. The animals are EASY. I rent from Antero Llamas out of Salida. The llamas are seasoned packers, well behaved, don't blow up, eat anything, need water only every 3-5 days, are good for about 80-90lbs, and can be left staked out all day. You can eventually work one down is the only negative I've run into. Great option!!!!

 

[fwagner]

How much are the llamas to rent?

 

[huntlife]

Theres so much good info on this thread. I can see there are different opinions on this topic. I gather that if your coming from out of state, or don't know horses, or don't have good horses that's used to this type of work, its better to go with a outfitter to pack your stuff in and out. As for the llamas, Ive never been around them, but they seem to be a very good option. Theres been a lot of talk about goats too. I haven't been around very many of them either. One good thing about using goats is if you run out of food, they make good bbq! I think this comes down to what you know about the animals your thinking about using, and the area your hunting, and how the animals handle that area. Any pack animal can get spooked if a bear or lion is bugging them.

Lots to think about here. Personally, I love horses. I love having them around. They are great animals. Yea, they can be a lot of work, but its worth it. Even if I don't hunt off them, Im still going to have some at the house. If they work out for hunting, great! If not, I can always look at the llamas or goats. And, theres always the option of having an outfitter do the packing for me. But, since Im moving to Montana in 20 days, Ill probably try to use my own. I hate paying someone to do something I can do! That's why I hunt public land. I hate paying someone to take me hunting or to use their land. Ive done both, and if I had to, Id do it again, but I wouldn't like it. Another thing I like about the idea of being able to use my own horses is I love helping my friends. If someone has an elk down and needs help, I like helping. That means they will probably help me when I need it (hopefully).

 

[hank4elk]

Good stuff.
I don't have horses anymore. But I have rancher and outfitter guys that will take me in and pack me and elk out. I can take same set-up as diy backpack in,they drop me off (usually on way to their camp or looking for stock) and pick me up the day after hunt.5 day hunts here,unless bow. Drop camp type deal.
I usually can get great intel from them,they tend to just steer you away from their hunt areas,no problem.
I hunted most of my life without anyway to get help,like cell or sat. phone.

 

[DrH]

I rented horses from 1971-2008, all from Wyoming Horses. None of us knew much about horses, and when I became the guy in camp who knew the most about horses we were really in trouble. We never rode a horse hunting, always used them for packing elk, although we rode them back to the kill sites then led them back out loaded. I accumulated the horse gear, owned the horse trailers, bought a new one when suddenly no rental horses would load into a two horse trailer, and struggled to get on them when suddenly horses were half draft horse so they could haul Bubba's fat butt around. We had horses try to kick us in the face because they were in heat, horses that spooked from an amorous bull moose, horses that wouldn't load, one horse that kicked another in the face and killed it. We had horses that didn't want to cross streams, go uphill at more than a snail's pace, or downhill at the same pace. We had old horses smarter than the hunters that got themselves unstuck from bogs and off brush piles, and that were too smart to try and walk loaded between trees they new were too close together. We had horses lay down in trailers, kick doors so hard we almost couldn't open the trailer, refuse to load in any trailer and have to be picked up, and luckily most were the kind I always requested -"Damned near dead and broke to pack". They were invaluable pains in the butt and very expensive unless you were sharing the cost, but much cheaper than keeping them all year. I would still be doing it if an outfitter who won't get off his horses wasn't running the elk into Yellowstone or Idaho within two days of the opener. I agree with everything said about horses above, and think your decision to pay someone to pack your elk is the best one.

 

[James Riley]

. . . when suddenly no rental horses would load into a two horse trailer . . . horses that wouldn't load . . . refuse to load in any trailer

BTDT, LOL! I'd gone twenty years without using horses when I killed a rag horn bull one day and decided to break out the ponies. I loaded them fine, went up, unloaded, went in, packed the elk up and out with no problem. Got the elk off the horses and into the truck. Got one horse into the trailer with no problem. The other SOB would not go. I spent about 2 hours fighting him, trying to winch him and everything. I finally got his dumb ass in the trailer and home. I pulled out my notes from the old days and there it was: Take off your jacket and tie it around their head/eyes so they are blind as a bat and walk them on the trailer. I knew that. But I'd never had to use it. And I'd forgot. Sometimes book learning needs follow up with a real world jerk for it to settle into the old knowledge bank where it might do some good. It happened one other time after that and I used the trick and it worked like a charm.

 

[IABOWHUNTER]

Sounds like I'm late on this thread but being a guy from Iowa who bought 2 mules for elk hunting I figured I better share my thoughts. First I wont repeat what has already been covered, expense, training, field care, twanging signs, and broken ribs. I've been through it all and the learning curve is huge! So I think you have made the right choice. But if you feel you need to step up your level of adventure try hunting off of horses, just do it right and get well trained and well trained horses. I've been trailering my mules out west for 3 years now and can't wait to trailer them this Sept. Good luck

 

[IABOWHUNTER]

Sounds like I'm late on this thread but being a guy from Iowa who bought 2 mules for elk hunting I figured I better share my thoughts. First I wont repeat what has already been covered, expense, training, field care, twanging signs, and broken ribs. I've been through it all and the learning curve is huge! So I think you have made the right choice. But if you feel you need to step up your level of adventure try hunting off of horses, just do it right and get well trained and well trained horses. I've been trailering my mules out west for 3 years now and can't wait to trailer them this Sept. Good luck

 

[IABOWHUNTER]

Sounds like I'm late on this thread but being a guy from Iowa who bought 2 mules for elk hunting I figured I better share my thoughts. First I wont repeat what has already been covered, expense, training, field care, twanging signs, and broken ribs. I've been through it all and the learning curve is huge!!! So I think you have made the right choice, But if you feel you need to step up your level of adventure try hunting off of horses, just do it right and get well trained and well trained horses. I've been trailering my mules out west for 3 yrs now and cant wait to trailer them this Sept. Good luck

 

[IABOWHUNTER]

Sorry, how do I delete these extra posts?