405 Winchester

Europe

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while on my recent trip with my family, a fellow asked for my advise. It has been 30 or more years since my husband had a 405 Winchester. I told him that from memory it would hunt out to 200 yards, but had less velocity and energy than a 45/70 and the 45/70 would also give him better bullet selections. However, If it was the 405 that intrigued him, he might want to look at the Ruger #1 405. ( but of course it is not a lever ) Personally if you want to play in the 400 sandbox, I would prefer the 450/400, 404 Jeff or even the 416 Rigby.

He was thinking the 405 Winchester might be a good follow up rifle for wounded game. I felt there were better options, ---- for plains game your follow up shot might require some distance.----- For leopard, I suggested a shotgun ---- for Buffalo I would prefer a 45/70 over a 405---(actually I would prefer a 450/400), . I also mentioned the cost and condition of finding an original. However, again from memory, I thought Winchester brought it back in some way for a short period of time, but if I am right those rifles would have probably been made in Japan------anyway -----I threw cold water on using the 405 with a 300 grain bullet as a follow up rifle, but I did so on "dated" information ( not to mention that my memory is also not what it once was ) I believe the 300 gr bullet was the only weight bullet made for it at that time, but that also may have changed or I am sure the rifle could be reworked to accept other weights---------anyway I told him I would ask a group of men and women with more knowledge than I and get back to him

If some of you gentlemen would give me some up to date information, as well as your opinions, I will forward it to him. Thank you
 

dirtclod Az.

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Dang Missy my .308 and .306 punch pretty hard.405 with 300gr.
and I'm on my AZZ! Although I do reload for Dinosaurs and Buffarillas. :cool:

Pm on the way.
 

midwesthunter

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I know the 405 win shoots a .411 diameter bullet, and you would be in the 2200 fps range with a 300 grain bullet, so all things considered, around 1600-1700 pounds energy at 200 yards, depending on bullet design ( I don't believe there are many choices) you might not get the performance desired from the bullet.

Now if one was to reload, you may be be able to get a .410 bullet to shoot well enough, and that would open up a lot more bullet choices.
 

Panda Bear

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April, we looked at the 405 and imho it is great gun for those who want something different than everybody else or a collector but not my choice for a working rifle. We felt the 45/70 with a 405 wood leigh gave us all we needed inside 150 yards. I have zero experience in Africa but based on what I do know the 45/70 would be my choice. Also 45/70 can be found fairly easy and much cheaper than an original 405, as can ammo for it. I have zero knowledge of the 405 Ruger. Are you still stuck with a 300 gr bullet in the single shot Rugar ?
 

VAspeedgoat

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The 405 was made in recent history. If I remember right, Craig boddington wrote a story about hunting Africa with it. I don't recall the time or cost of the new ones.

I do think you were spot on with your advise also.
 

BrentD

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After they invented the .45-70, I've always wondered why anyone ever bothered to make another rifle cartridge ever since. Sort of a waste of time trying to perfect perfect. :)
 

Randi

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After they invented the .45-70, I've always wondered why anyone ever bothered to make another rifle cartridge ever since. Sort of a waste of time trying to perfect perfect. :)

Exactly. Here in Alaska, the 45/70 is a well used/liked Bear/Moose rifle. Its only downfall is range, but along the rivers, range is not an issue. Have no knowledge of the 405 or Africa, but I would think the 45/70 with the proper bullet would be a good one for "follow-up" work

April, could you please expand on leopards/shotguns
 

BrentD

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Exactly. Here in Alaska, the 45/70 is a well used/liked Bear/Moose rifle. Its only downfall is range, but along the rivers, range is not an issue. Have no knowledge of the 405 or Africa, but I would think the 45/70 with the proper bullet would be a good one for "follow-up" work

April, could you please expand on leopards/shotguns
ACtually, the .45-70 has plenty of range. 1000 yds if you must. But only if you CAN (and that is the problem with a .45-XX). It is hard to shoot well at distances, but the accuracy and penetration is there, if you are good enough. I don't mean to imply that I am either. 200 yds is a long shot on game for me, but 300 if everything is perfect. Beyond that, to make a scratch shot like that is just not in the wheelhouse of any hunter/shooter I know.
 

Europe

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to all who responded , thank you

Randi, Brent is correct, but he is not referring to your un scoped guide gun when he speaks of long range shooting (-:

Randi, there is an ongoing dialog about which of the dangerous 7, is the most dangerous when wounded, and that conversation will continue, but a wounded leopard can be very dangerous. They hide well, are very quick, and can do a tremendous amount of damage very quickly. Some just prefer a shotgun for that quick shot --or two.

Dirtclod---I agree. From memory I dont believe I ever shot it, but I do wish we still had it. Of course I wish I still had the Ferrari, the ability to hike a mtn and the "figure" I had at 18----but, wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up the fastest

no 405 Winchester owners unfortunately. I was really hoping someone had, or still has one of the Ruger 1's in 405---oh well, its 5 o'clock somewhere, so will make myself a drink and begin researching it

thanks guys
 

elkduds

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to all who responded , thank you

oh well, its 5 o'clock somewhere, so will make myself a drink and begin researching it

thanks guys
Better hurry, its also last call somewhere else.

P.S. 444 Marlin. But I repeat (pun intended) myself.
 

BrentD

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Europe, Why the Ruger? I assume you mean a #1. That seems like a rather poor choice for a follow-up gun. I'd rather have a lever gun, double, or at least some sort of repeater in nearly any caliber rather than a single shot in thick cover with a wounded animal, and I'm a dedicated single shooter kinda guy.
 

Carl 9.3x62

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Good ol TR liked it for lion, and maybe rhino? Can't remember on the latter one. I could only find 300gr bullets online. It would be fun to use.
 

BrentD

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Carl, didn't he get fed up with the .40 and go back to his 06 Springfield for rhino? Or was that Hemingway or, even more likely, is my memory just completely wrong?
 

Europe

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Better hurry, its also last call somewhere else.

(-: and you would be right

Brent, without a doubt you are correct. I was curious whether Ruger made any changes with their single shot or stayed with the 300 gr, as he had an interest in the 405 caliber specifically, but you are correct the lever, bolt or my preference, the double would be a better option. The Japanese made Winchester 405 would be another option, but they are more than the originals. I am going to suggest, if he wants a lever as a follow up rifle, just buy himself a 45/70 and use a 400 plus gr bullets

Carl, Brent--yeah it was teddy, Hemingway, bell, raurk, or someone else , I am sure of it ! LOL Carl, Brent, thanks guys
 

Randi

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thank you April. I am assuming these shotguns are 12 gauge, auto, and as short as the law allows for maneuverability . . If hunting leopard from a blind, is the 375 H & H still the minimum caliber allowed ? they can't be ay tougher ( body/skin ) than a mountain lion. Sorry, but the Leopard part of your post intrigued me. I will pm you

Yes, as mentioned the 45/70 with the proper bullet works well for Grizzly, which would seem to comparable to lion and leopard ( body/skin type ) but whether it is enough for Elephant or Buffalo, I have no idea.

Brent. For sure, 200 would be my max and I would be even more comfortable at 100. But I am very impressed ( I am serious, as some here are a bit sarcastic when handing out praise, I am not ) that you can reach out to 300 and beyond. Do you shoot the 45/70 or 45 ---??? ( one of the other 45/? )
 

squirrel

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I went on a Capstick bender last spring (as spring never showed up!) He put a lot of info in his books as he did not hesitate to pull from history to illustrate his points when his own tales needed some further fleshing out.

Of course how much info that did NOT back up his pet theories ended up on the editing room floor you just never know.

Interesting in it's extremes two stories stand out. A truck wreck with a long death march home and a rogue elephant killed with a 270 soft point pulled out with his teeth and set back in backwards to make a square base "solid"

A wounded follow up of a male lion that turned out to be a 470 double vs 3 lions leaving him a wee bit short in the available shots category...

In either case a good lever would have been worth a tidy sum.

His personal choice for following spotted kitty was a winchester model 12, no doubt being somewhat influenced by his personal history as a wingshooter in his pre- africa life.

I would think as the 45-70 is maligned as too light by most (at least at lever gun pressures) a 405 would just bounce off? It is an interesting historical choice but I would hate to become history just to experience it?
 

BrentD

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Randi, mostly I shoot .45-70s. I shoot them exclusively in competition, but my hunting rifles are or have been .45-70, .45-90, .450-100. They are all really about the same actually. The only real problem is knowing the actual distance to the target, and knowing my drops (and the wind of course).

I'm sure you could do this too. Once you shoot them a bunch, you realize it's all just aiming and squeezing. And when you get confident with that, then the rest is simple ballistics and wind.
 

squirrel

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And a LOT of drop it is Brent... full 24" at just 200 yards with my current 405 grain cast load (at about 1600 fps) But it has penetration out the wazooo, had a 22" chunk of spruce for a pistol back stop last winter and decided to try out the 45-70. Good thing there was a big round bale behind as it put 3 all the way thru. Now the question remains do llamas get lead poisoning???
 

Europe

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yes, yes and yes on the shotgun Randi

"Basically " yes on the 375 H & H but it varies per country

Randi, Brent is playing in a completely different sandbox . your looking at a 45/70 guide gun to hunt along a river with or for protection when fishing. Brent also uses his rifles that way --BUT---he also shoots competitively and probably has the 45-70-, plus the 45-75, 45-90, 45-100, 45-110, 45-120, 45-125------and maybe some (or all ) of the 40 -, 44-, and 50's- as well If he has an original in each one, he needs a very secure safe ( as well as a large one ) (-;

squirrel --I agree ! -------I was agreeing with your first post---but also agree with your second post. (-:
 
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