30-06 vs 308 Handloading

[Bambistew]

Id go with the 308. I like shooting it more than the 30-06, has been easier to load/find loads for in my experience, and it performs just well.

 

[buffybr]

My first centerfire rifle was a .30-06. For about 10 years it did everything that I wanted it to do on anything from prairie dogs to elk.

About 25 years ago I won a .270 Win. I immediately worked up a sub-moa load for it, but I've never hunted with it because it falls between my .257 Ackley, 7mm Rem mag, and .30 Gibbs.

Although there is a greater bullet selection for the .280 Rem than the .270 Win, the actual field performance between them is negligible.

A couple of years ago I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in .308 Win, mainly for plinking steel at our local range, but I did use it on a Sitka deer hunt on Kodiak Island last year.

IMO if you already have a .308 Win, .270 Win, .280 Rem, or .30-06 there is very little reason to buy another rifle in one of those other cartridges. The .308 will burn less powder and may kick less. The .30-06 can shoot a little heavier bullets. The .270, .280, and .30-06 can shoot a little flatter than the .308. But for hunting shots under a quarter mile, the animal won't know the difference if shot with a bullet from any of those cartridges.

 

[2506gunslinger]

What, don’t buy a gun you don’t need? What kind of nonsense is that? A man should always buy guns he doesn’t need, it’s what makes America great!

 

[std7mag]

That's how i got half of mine!

Vikingsguy,

The Cutting Edge bullets have what they call a "seal tight band". Slightly larger than bullet diameter. Purpose is to help keep the gasses from escaping. It's also supposed to help with copper fouling.

Really though, why people worry so much about copper fouling is beyond me.
4 days of hard work to remove every last spec of copper, then do "fouling shots" to put it back in so your barrel shoots right.

 

[VikingsGuy]

That's how i got half of mine!

Vikingsguy,

The Cutting Edge bullets have what they call a "seal tight band". Slightly larger than bullet diameter. Purpose is to help keep the gasses from escaping. It's also supposed to help with copper fouling.

Really though, why people worry so much about copper fouling is beyond me.
4 days of hard work to remove every last spec of copper, then do "fouling shots" to put it back in so your barrel shoots right.

Have you shot all 3, TTSX, Hammer and Cutting Edge? If so, your relative thoughts?

 

[ImBillT]

That's how i got half of mine!

Vikingsguy,

The Cutting Edge bullets have what they call a "seal tight band". Slightly larger than bullet diameter. Purpose is to help keep the gasses from escaping. It's also supposed to help with copper fouling.

Really though, why people worry so much about copper fouling is beyond me.
4 days of hard work to remove every last spec of copper, then do "fouling shots" to put it back in so your barrel shoots right.

Shots 1,2&3 Monday at 200yds after cleaning.

Shots 9,10,11 after cleaning. Shot at 200yds today. The POI shift was due to a different bullet being fired 260fps faster.

I mostly shoot on a fouled barrel, but most barrels will shot their best while clean. In a lot of factory barrels that only lasts 2-3 shots. In a good custom that might stretch to 20+.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Shots 1,2&3 Monday at 200yds after cleaning.

Shots 9,10,11 after cleaning. Shot at 200yds today. The POI shift was due to a different bullet being fired 260fps faster.

I mostly shoot on a fouled barrel, but most barrels will shot their best while clean. In a lot of factory barrels that only lasts 2-3 shots. In a good custom that might stretch to 20+.

I hate when people post these types of pics as a reminder I need to improve my shooting.

 

[ImBillT]

I hate when people post these types of pics as a reminder I need to improve my shooting.

I doubt it’s your shooting. Getting from the .300’s to the teens and zeros is going to be a combo of gunsmith, dies that get your case to fit your chamber properly, case prep, tuning, cleaning regimen(which is very different in a 5-shot group match where you can clean between groups compared to 15 or 20 shot relays in a score match where you can’t even clean between relays).

I think it will work for a pronghorn next month as long as NM lets me in and I don’t get the jitters.

The point though was that scrubbing all the copper out CAN be of value, but is not always of value. It depends on what you plan to do with the rifle. It just so happens that I brushed it simply because it had been about 300 shots since the last time I brushed it. Unfortunately I doubt there are 300 shots left in it before accuracy degrades.

 

[std7mag]

Yeah, it's a different world between hunting and match shooting.
I've been doing some UBR, IBS, and ground hog matches this year.
Learning ALOT!
Kinda humbling after being one of the better shooting hunters, then going to matches, where i'm upper mid pack.
At least in factory rifle. Custom guns i'm not even in the neighborhood.

Vikingsguy,

I splurged and got a box of the of the 155gr MTH from Cutting Edge when i had my 7mm-08AI. Was getting just below 2,800 fps with RL17. But that was a fairly hot load, not recommended!
Accuracy was right in there with the Berger's, and Sierra's.
I haven't had a chance to use them hunting yet.
I will try another box for my 280 Rem & 7mm Rem Mag this year.
I haven't tried the Barnes or any other copper bullets. Cutting Edge is about 30-35 miles from me, on my way to where i hunt.
Really nice people, that really know their stuff about bullets & ballistics, even the people in the front office.
Normal price is about $60 per box of 50.
I get cheaper (about $50 a box) because i can pick up directly from them.
As the go to bullet manufacturer for King Of 2 Miles, yeah, they are good!

 

[VikingsGuy]

Yeah, it's a different world between hunting and match shooting.
I've been doing some UBR, IBS, and ground hog matches this year.
Learning ALOT!
Kinda humbling after being one of the better shooting hunters, then going to matches, where i'm upper mid pack.
At least in factory rifle. Custom guns i'm not even in the neighborhood.

Vikingsguy,

I splurged and got a box of the of the 155gr MTH from Cutting Edge when i had my 7mm-08AI. Was getting just below 2,800 fps with RL17. But that was a fairly hot load, not recommended!
Accuracy was right in there with the Berger's, and Sierra's.
I haven't had a chance to use them hunting yet.
I will try another box for my 280 Rem & 7mm Rem Mag this year.
I haven't tried the Barnes or any other copper bullets. Cutting Edge is about 30-35 miles from me, on my way to where i hunt.
Really nice people, that really know their stuff about bullets & ballistics, even the people in the front office.
Normal price is about $60 per box of 50.
I get cheaper (about $50 a box) because i can pick up directly from them.
As the go to bullet manufacturer for King Of 2 Miles, yeah, they are good!

Thanks - something to keep in mind.

 

[mtmuley]

std7mag, ever killed anything with a Cutting Edge? mtmuley

 

[Don Fischer]

Have you shot all 3, TTSX, Hammer and Cutting Edge? If so, your relative thoughts?

I don't think it really matter's to shoot all three but, then again, regardless the outcome you'll end up liking what you like. And in the end whatever bullet you end up using will probably accomplish the same end! As for accuracy, what real difference does a quarter inch make in a hunting rifle? Before much longer someone is going to make another bullet some will consider the best thing since 7 up! The chase for the prefect bullet is like the chase for the .000" group. If there is an advantage to the premium bullet's it's you don't have to really think about the bullet you choose. Can't say that for cup and core bullet's. Thing I have always liked about cup and core bullet's is that they do exactly the same job just as well when properly chosen for half the price! If I were to go custom route, well not really custom, I'd go Speer Hot Core. The core's and jacket do not come loose. Same with the bonded core bullets except the Hot Core got here 50+ years earlier and are half the price.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I don't think it really matter's to shoot all three but, then again, regardless the outcome you'll end up liking what you like. And in the end whatever bullet you end up using will probably accomplish the same end! As for accuracy, what real difference does a quarter inch make in a hunting rifle? Before much longer someone is going to make another bullet some will consider the best thing since 7 up! The chase for the prefect bullet is like the chase for the .000" group. If there is an advantage to the premium bullet's it's you don't have to really think about the bullet you choose. Can't say that for cup and core bullet's. Thing I have always liked about cup and core bullet's is that they do exactly the same job just as well when properly chosen for half the price! If I were to go custom route, well not really custom, I'd go Speer Hot Core. The core's and jacket do not come loose. Same with the bonded core bullets except the Hot Core got here 50+ years earlier and are half the price.

I get it - every time a handloading topic comes up you say none of it matters and old school cup&core bullets are the cheapest so why are we wasting our money; and no need to try a new powder or a new die or a new technique, the animals are just as dead as they would be with a good old greenbox CorLokt. Noted.

But you seem to refuse to understand that some of us handload not to save money or because cup&core bullets are incapable of killing animals. We do it for many different reasons - loading for atypical cartridges, broader bullet options than factory, the tinkering part of the hobby, the interest in squeezing out a few extra fps or slightly tighter groups just for the fun/challenge of it. Bullet costs for hunting rifles for most handloaders are a rounding error in their overall gun/hunting spend. Also, many of us don't want to bring home lead-shot meat to our families and leave lead-laden gut piles in the environment - so we won't shoot cup&core just to save 50 cents on the one bullet we needed to punch this year's tag.

And to your first comment, different bullet shapes do load/handle differently and shoot differently, so actual experience is a relevant data point in the discussion.

So, shoot what you like, but at least start to gather why others are asking these questions and don't just shoot the cheapest cup&core they can find.

 

[mtmuley]

Don IS the get off my lawn guy. mtmuley

 

[Don Fischer]

Don IS the get off my lawn guy. mtmuley

Yea he is. The problem is not that I think custom product' are no good but that to read what's printed there is no coverage at all for the guy that can't afford the expensive route! Every thing written about the custom stuff is written in a tone that you really need to go this route to be right. Just isn't true!

 

[mtmuley]

Don, you don't have to shoot "expensive" bullets for practice. What bullet to use for killing is a personal decision based on a lot if variables. No right answer for every shooter. mtmuley

 

[Don Fischer]

From what I read on these forum's, you'd have a hard time convincing me of that. But I think your right about it.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Yea he is. The problem is not that I think custom product' are no good but that to read what's printed there is no coverage at all for the guy that can't afford the expensive route! Every thing written about the custom stuff is written in a tone that you really need to go this route to be right. Just isn't true!

"For a guy on a budget advice" is a valuable contribution, but you go beyond that and spend most of your words on why to do anymore is a waste of time and money (and bordering on pointless) - which doesn't help anybody. Carry On.

 

[ImBillT]

]

"For a guy on a budget advice" is a valuable contribution, but you go beyond that and spend most of your words on why to do anymore is a waste of time and money (and bordering on pointless) - which doesn't help anybody. Carry On.

He’s been teetering on the edge of my ignore list for a while.

 

[mtmuley]

]



He’s been teetering on the edge of my ignore list for a while.

I don't ignore anybody. I figure I can read what someone posts, process it then decide whether or not to respond. But, been here long before the option was presented. mtmuley