.223 loads

[Calif. Hunter]

I've been working on developing a good accurate load for my .223. It's a Savage with a 1 in 9 twist, and i've been told that the lighter bullets may be unstable wiht that faster twist. I've tried some cheap "Ultra Max" loads with the Speer 50 gr. TNT HP's and they've shot very well. I've loaded 55 gr. Remington HP's and Sierra 60 gr. HP's, and they've both done well too. (1/2 inch groups when I do my part off the bench.) So far, I like W-748 ball powder, but I've heard that it fouls the barrel up fairly quickly. So far, I haven't experienced that with 4 or 5 groups, but I haven't done any high volume shooting with it. IMR-3031 did not group as well, but IMR-4895 seems to do well. Anyone have a pet load?

 

[danr55]

CH-Don't believe everything you're told. You cannot 'over stablize' a bullet. That's about the same as 'too dead' for game or 'too big' for Elk. It just doesn't exist. What you can do is spin a light bullet so fast that it comes apart, but I don't think you'll have that problem. The rule is: The longer the bullet, the faster the twist. The inverse in not true. I have an old Swede in 6.5X55 that has a 1:7.5 twist that shoots 85 grain hollow points just fine. Anyway, try loading 55 or 52 grainers with 26.4 grains of BLC-2 or H 335 and CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers. I use a powder designated "Thunderbird 2208" that burns the same as BLC-2 and that load is spectacular. I have loaded BLC-2 and H335 both and the performance is almost as good. Dan AZ

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Thanks, Dan. On another forum, a guy was trying to tell me that the TNT's would "vaporize". The targets I was getting showed perfect little round holes and no evidence of "over-stabilization" or "exploding" in air. They were devastating on ground squirrels, which could have been helped along by the higher RPM of the bullets, perhaps. Personally, I think it is just the way the bullet is designed! I couldn't argue with 1/2 groups, especially when you consider that I am not THAT good a shot from the bench anyway...I tend to rush the shot as I get impatient with my wobbling. I'll try your powder suggestions.

 

[danr55]

You know what, a lot of us have that wobble problem. I've found that if I pick a spot on the target and concentrate on the spot, the wobbling settles down. I try to shoot from a rest of some type, be it a bench, a tree, a backpack or buttpack, a bipod, or a stick that I picked up in the woods. I have been known to pick up a forked stick in the woods when Elk hunting and carry the damned thing around for 3 or 4 days, only to throw it away when it came time to shoot, because I found a better rest. I always have something on Antelope hunts, and a bipod when shootin' dawgs is a necessity. Try to slow your breathing and pick a specific spot on your target. The smaller the spot and the more you concentrate, the better you should be and not noticing the shaking. Dan AZ

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Dan - I get impatient even with the minimal wobbling I do from the bench! Last time I went out shooting at the ranch from our bench, a friend of mine had one of those "bull bags" that is a large sandbag that most of the rifle lays in. It's got a shallow groove for the rifle and is about 18 inches long. That was the steadiest method I have tried yet that worked with a .300 Weatherby, particularly with a sandbag under the rear end of the stock, too. (I refuse to shoot that rifle from one of those "Varminter" rests with the plastic-coated "V"s for the fore end and stock! The rifle slams me enough without adding something else protruding from it.) I also like a small red spot or square on the bullseye, while my friend likes to have heavy black crosshairs on the target. I just keep finding myself holding my breath, turning blue, waiting for the crosshairs to line up perfectly and stop moving! I know I'm not supposed to do that, but it must be a character defect.

 

[WDSWIFT]

CALIF.HUNTER, Dan is pretty darn good when it comes to advise on shooting technique and a lot of other areas as well. Regarding the 223 loads, several of us around here use the 748 powder in the 223, it is easy to work with and the 223's seem to like it real well. I also like the 335 powder in the 223. It handles equally well to the 748 and I can't see any difference in the groups between the 2. I like the 50gr nosler ballistic tips in front of either of these 2 powders. I have chrony'd the 748 and the 50's at an average of well over 3400fps. As for barrel fouling on the 748 powder....well like Dan said don't believe everything you hear (or read and about half of what ya see). If it is a fouler quite a few of us have missed it. If you insist on IMR powders, the 4198 used to be a good powder, but it has been so long since I used it, I wouldn't swear that they still make it. Good shooting!

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Thanks, WDSwift. Dan has certainly been a big help to me and others on this and the "old" forum. The only reason I tried the IMR powders is that I got an assortment of them from my Dad. I'm mainly just trying to use them up! He taught me to reload 30 some years ago, and for some reason, that's all he used in rifles. I like the W748 because it measures and packs in the case so nicely. I asked about it fouling mainly because I hadn't noticed it doing so, but hadn't fired more than 20 or 30 on an outing yet. I enjoy the whole process of trying to determine which bullet, powder, charge weight, etc. shoots the best in each of my rifles. While I determine which is best before each hunting trip, I continue to experiment in the off season. Most days, I run out of time before I run out of loads and rifles to try out. But heck, that's a lot of the fun for me!

 

[danr55]

WDSwift, Thanks for the nice words. I'm glad I can pass on some stuff. Sgt. Majors would be please also. As for steady rest when shooting off of a bench, Ch you never mentioned you were trying to shoot a 300 WBY off of a bench. I thought we were talking .223. Hell, the 300 WBY makes me nervous also. There is no pleasant way to shoot that monster off of a bench. Don't let that throw you. If you want to try shooting a normal caliber off of a bench, the thing that I try to teach is to use a bi-pod. That keeps the rifle steady in two axis. Then put a sand bag under the stock to hold the stock up. I squeeze and release the sand bag to raise and lower the sights. That way the only things you have to worry about are breath control, heart beat, heat distortion of your target, trigger control, managing recoil, and keeping the noise around you from bothering you. That's not much for the average robot, but being human is a slight drawback. Dan AZ

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Thanks again, Dan. I don't shoot as often as I would like, mainly because a trip to a place to shoot here in SoCal is always an expedition and I have to decide to try to shoot several guns a little each or a couple of guns a lot each. The most I can handle from the .300 is two 3-shot groups, then I take a break and shoot the .223, a .22 mag or a .22 LR. After the Weatherby, I don't even shoot the .30-06 or .270 for a while, in order to avoid getting into a bad habit of flinching or jerking the trigger. It seems like I am in a constant stage of load development...not because I don't already have a good load for each of my rifles or handguns, but because I want to see if I can get a better one. I like reloading, so I doubt that I will ever stop experimenting unless either they stop coming out with new bullets and powders or they stop making new firearms and calibers. Heaven forbid they ever do that!

 

[Fatman]

A load that my Super 14 Contender really likes is 16 grs. of IMR 4227 and a 55 gr Ballistic tip. When I do my part this load will put 3 shots touching each other from my pistol at 100 yds. A friend of mine used this load several years ago and really had good luck with it also. I tried W748 and it did not perform like the 4227, may be the difference in barrel lengths of a pistol and a rifle.

[This message has been edited by Fatman (edited 12-21-2000).]

 

[Delw]

On the TNT bullets vaporizing , Ive done it in my 22-250 and if i remember correctly dan(up in seligman) was with me. he said i loaded them to fast.reduced the load and they worked fine. in the .223 they were a dream come true on p-dogs, as well as great kills on coyotes.
But as dan know's i'm a berger bullet freak.shit i still have over 10,000 left.
when walt sold his business to the bums in ca. it went to hell. I use to get seconds from him and bought them by the bucket.
I killed my first az couse deer with a 100 grain berger at 450 yards in a 22-250.
as far as bergers for pelts they did a fantastic job,but for the last few years its been nosler only.

If you ever geat a chance to get some berger bullets try them,(i dont like the moly ones)You will be real suprised.

Delw

 

[red]

I've loaded with win 748 and H335 and both give similar results. I think I prefer the 748 over the H335 beause the 748 charges thrown by my powder measure are much more consistant and it fills up more of the case.

Has anyone tried Varget in their .223? I've been hearing good things about it for accuracy.

red

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[danr55]

Del, I remeber that grey streak shooting trip. Hey, I didn't know that Walt sold out. I guess that's why the price has gone crazy. What did he do? Is he still shooting or has he retired? Everyone's getting out of the business.

[This message has been edited by danr55 (edited 01-12-2001).]

 

[WDSWIFT]

red, I shot some 223 not long ago loaded with varget. It shot well, but personally I'm sticking with the 748 and 335. I aggree that the 748 drops nice and my 223 loves it and the ballistic tip bullets.WD.

 

[red]

Thanks WDSWIFT, I have had good results using the hp bt fmj 55 grain sierra's using 26 grains 748 or 25 grains of H 335.

Is the Varget an extruded stick or a ball type powder?

red

 

[deadeye2]

Hi Calf. Hunter,
I find the 223 easy to load for and a lot of different mixs will work very well. I have a Kimber 84L that loves the 55 Rem H.P.s with 22.0 grs of IMR4198 and a 71/2 Rem match primer. I get 3100 fps and 1/2" groups with that little old rife with a 22" tube. That is about as steady as I can hold it anymore.
Good luck with you Savage, I find that they shoot quite well.
Be safe, have fun!
deadeye2

 

[WDSWIFT]

red, The Varget is a real fine cut extruded powder, not a ball powder. Meters pretty good, and burns similar in rate to 4064.WD.

 

[red]

WD
Thanks for the info on the varget.

red