You Can't Fix Stupid - $87,000,000 California Lion "Crossing"

[ILbowhntr]

This is so interesting to me. This thread is also timely after listening to the second of the series of 5 podcasts that Big Fin sent out today. I‘m sure the podcasts aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, but this thread really captures what was discussed.

 

[Nick87]

Yeah! Screw habitat connectivity!

$87 mil for that?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I work in the highway construction industry. This isn’t that much money for an infrastructure project. Especially one in Southern California. A $111m project just went to bid in Idaho last week to replace a few vehicle overpasses, for example.

A quick Google search shows that the majority of this project was funded by private donations.

Edit: Here’s the coordinates of you want to use street view to see how many lanes any critter would have to cross on one of the busiest freeways in the country: (34.1381449, -118.7284826)

It is a lot of money to spend on a mountain lion overpass in a state with a huge overpopulation of the cats, regardless of who is funding it.

This idea that lions will all of the sudden decide to use it is also not realistic. The cats are already crossing the road.

Yeah! Screw habitat connectivity!

The habit isn't disconnected. Lions will cross roads. They eat deer on both sides. They fck on both sides.

They will still cross the road when it is up. Only a Californian would think that they could train the lions to cross exactly where they decide. Some will get hit by cars, others won't.

It is $87,000,000 spent to target one species which is radically overpopulated in the state.

The funding is mostly private, but that doesn't change the madness of it or the amount.

If this same project were in Idaho and funded by Idaho Fish and Game, as an illustration, it would literally be 71% of IDFG entire annual budget.

I can think of better ways to spend the money....like maybe killing a few lions so that California can give out more than one....yes one.... nonresident elk tag. Just an example to show priorities. Antis want as many predators killing ungulates as possible so that there aren't ungulate populations big enough for us to hunt. They didn't pick wolves and lions and grizzly bears as their hill to die on in many states by accident.

I will never understand California logic. To walk down a city street you have to dodge human shit and heroin needles, yet I bet they pay a professional landscaper to keep the grass mowed on the lion crossing.

 

[gouch]

Oregon plans to spend $250,000,000 on wildlife crossings in the next five years. Not near enough. There won't be much change in the amount of deer killed by cougars as a result of that crossing in California, but the cougars will have more genetic diversity while at the same time, countless numbers of deer will be saved because of the crossing. Seems like a win-win for wildlife conservation. We hunters are conservationist, right. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

 

[manitou1]

Uh, mountain lions have something like a forty sq mile home range and are not social/herd animals. How many lions do they plan on saving with this $87M joke? One, maybe two per decade or two?
Brilliant.

 

[Nick87]

Uh, mountain lions have something like a forty sq mile home range and are not social/herd animals. How many lions do they plan on saving with this $87M joke? One, maybe two per decade or two?
Brilliant.

You mean there's no winter cat migration in herds?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Kuiu and Leupold: "we translocated 82 bighorn sheep within Arizona for $162,000."

California: "we built a bridge over a highway for $87,000,000 in hopes of getting wider genetic diversity for a single species of animal we are insanely overpopulated with that already cross the highway and will continue to do so..."

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I officially offer my services to California. I will tree and tranquilize a tom lion from each side of the highway every 6 months and flip flop them.

I will only charge 0.01% of the $87,000,000 per year to do this. I will provide the hounds and time, but I will need a tranquilizer gun and darts.

 

[WBouldin]

Okay, I’ll bite.

For someone from Idaho, you sure are spending a lot of time bashing California issues…

Yes, this state has its problems (especially around wildlife management) but the “point out how stupid California is / glad I don’t live there” shtick is incredibly old on this forum. We get it: you don’t like California, won’t ever live in California, think it’s a liberal cestpool, etc.

Bitching on here doesn’t help a damn thing. Many on this site are proudly from California and are trying to make change in a state in desperate need. Do us a favor and either pitch in to that effort or kindly throw your phone/tablet/laptop into the nearest water source next time something California comes to mind.

 

[Nick87]

Okay, I’ll bite.

For someone from Idaho, you sure are spending a lot of time bashing California issues…

Yes, this state has its problems (especially around wildlife management) but the “point out how stupid California is / glad I don’t live there” shtick is incredibly old on this forum. We get it: you don’t like California, won’t ever live in California, think it’s a liberal cestpool, etc.

Bitching on here doesn’t help a damn thing. Many on this site are proudly from California and are trying to make change in a state in desperate need. Do us a favor and either pitch in to that effort or kindly throw your phone/tablet/laptop into the nearest water source next time something California comes to mind.

What happens in California is relevant to everyone. Every time some crackpot idea is born in California it sets the stage for everywhere else.

 

[WBouldin]

What happens in California is relevant to everyone. Every time some crackpot idea is born in California it sets the stage for everywhere else.

“Every time”.. I’ll wait for you to cite all the examples….

 

[LuketheDog]

Habitat connectivity is good. Seems pricey, but after just driving through that location 2 weeks ago I don't imagine there's a cheap way to do it over 8 lanes of one of the busiest highways in the state.

 

[LuketheDog]

Okay, I’ll bite.

For someone from Idaho, you sure are spending a lot of time bashing California issues…

Yes, this state has its problems (especially around wildlife management) but the “point out how stupid California is / glad I don’t live there” shtick is incredibly old on this forum. We get it: you don’t like California, won’t ever live in California, think it’s a liberal cestpool, etc.

Bitching on here doesn’t help a damn thing. Many on this site are proudly from California and are trying to make change in a state in desperate need. Do us a favor and either pitch in to that effort or kindly throw your phone/tablet/laptop into the nearest water source next time something California comes to mind.

Maybe he's a transplanted Californian who's still angry about how much he overpaid for his house in Boise?

 

[Nick87]

“Every time”.. I’ll wait for you to cite all the examples….

Ok all the time..good luck with the cats

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

87 mil seems a bit much,,why dont we just give that money to fixing roads,or give it back to the tax payers.

 

[Trap]

Oregon plans to spend $250,000,000 on wildlife crossings in the next five years. Not near enough. There won't be much change in the amount of deer killed by cougars as a result of that crossing in California, but the cougars will have more genetic diversity while at the same time, countless numbers of deer will be saved because of the crossing. Seems like a win-win for wildlife conservation. We hunters are conservationist, right. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

Lions kill 52 deer a year on average with the massive over population of cats in that state not a lot of deer will be around to use that crossing. Lions range is HUGE and they don’t need a bridge or need to even cross that highway to find another lion to mate with. They don’t need to cross the highway to achieve “biological diversity” average Tom’s home range is 50 sqaure miles. They are already crossing that freeway if they feel like it and won’t suddenly be trained to use an overpass. This has nothing to do with conservation and is just another example of the envirotards obsession with an over abundance of predators. They want predators over ungulates as a way to stop hunting. It’s hard to issue deer tags when there are no surplus deer or almost no deer period. I don’t care what California does except they are trying to bring these same ridiculous ideas to other western states. Bad news is it’s working look at Oregon and Washington situation with banning dogs for lion hunting.

 

[Trap]

Think of the habitat improvements you could do with 87 million. But ya a lion bridge sounds good

 

[Cheesehead]

I’m not saying this is a cheaper option but it has potential

 

[Hunting Wife]

These threads always crack me up. Any experts who have the data to suggest the crossing isn’t needed, please post it up. “Because I think so” doesn’t count.

This population has been tracked via collar for almost two decades. They are exhibiting signs of inbreeding and population decline, and the data suggest connectivity is a problem. The alternative looks like a listing for the sub population, which would be far more expensive than $87 million.

World's Largest Wildlife Bridge Could Save Mountain Lions

An ambitious and popular project to connect the dangerously inbred Santa Monica mountain lions to a larger population is about to break ground

www.scientificamerican.com

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/references/S0960-9822(14)00855-0

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2016.0957

Yes, you could spend money on habitat. But unless you address the gene flow issue, it’s a waste of money.

But migration corridors for elk/antelope/deer/bears are good. Migration corridors for mountain lions are bad. Got it.

 

[Stocker]

Yes, cats are very predictable and easily led to man made paths.

I’d almost guarantee cats will go out of their way to not cross it.

Hopefully they post notices in the forest so the cats can read them and understand it’s for their benefit. Better include Spanish, mandarin, and German translations too so we’re “inclusive”.