Yellowstone, wolves, & snomachines, the facts!!
- Thread starter Sako7STW
- Start date
Nemont
Well-known member
Can you quote me a law that says it has to be opened to "the Public" during the winter season or that Snowmobiles have to be allowed in so that the Public has access?
So the reality is that if the park service says no more snow machines in YNP because they are impairing the park for the enjoyment of future generations then there is no "reality" that has to be managed for.
That is one of your more idiotic answers I have read. The issue is not whether they fill the whole park up with emissions. They produce more pollution in any measure you wish to consider. Per gallon of gas burned, per vehicle mile, per any measure you care to use. Not to mention the noise pollution in the park.
'chsr,
Did you read your first post of the Analysis your friend did. The question, even in my response, has nothing to do with whether there is room for 1,000 sleds a day. If you believe winter use of 1,000 sleds has little to no impact on wildlife, air quality and/or overall enjoyment of the YNP that is your opinion. What is idiotic is his findings that Wolves are more deadly to ungulates then snowmobiles. I could ask my third grade son that question: Kman, in YNP what would kill more animals over time; packs of hungry wolves or snowmobiles? He would answer wolves every time. Yet your friend seems to think he has come up with the perfect justification for continued snowmobile use in the Park. Stupid analysis, stupid conclusion period. He glossed over all the things that make snowmobiling in the park controversial. In addition there is that pesky little law called the endangered species act. There is no companion law called the endangered snowmobilers access act.
You really need to read some more on the subject before posting stupid things about the volume of gas needed to fill YNP. I think there is enough hot air in Anaconda to fill most of Western Montana.
Nemont
Bambistew
Well-known member
Jose I'm not sure you can compete with that logic...
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Probably not Bambi, but it would be fun to see him try!
Concentration and exposure are the keys to air pollution and for particulates, it's measured in micrograms per cubic meter over time.
Remember from junor high chemestry class, that concentrations for ozone, PM10, PM 2.5, Nitrogen Oxides, sulfur dioxide, and carbon monoxide, are measured in concentrations over time. the standard, or NAAQS are set by the EPA to protect human health and are measured by collecting samples of outdoor air over time. If concentrations of any one regulated pollutant exceed the standards, over time, there is a violation. These standards apply only to outdoor air. Health standards for occupational safety apply to closed spaces like that ranger check station. You cant possibly make any sense from adding up the total cubic feet of emissions -- that's a ridiculous exercise. Concentration is derived from a certain amount of pollutant in the presence of a known volume of air over a specific amount of time. Moreover, internal combustion engines all emit at different rates based on tuning, speed, altitude, fuel, and emissions controls. It takes very little "smoke" from a two stroke to pollute, beyond the standards, if given the right set of circumstances. The problem is that the standards and the methods for measuring concentrations of air pollution were not developed to capture air pollution in national parks nor were the standards designed to protect people from high concentrations of pollution over short durations, less than 12 hours. However, there are visibility standards that are much more sensitive to air pollution and those apply to the park too. In other words, visibility is a resource and federal agencies are charged with protecting visibility in our national parks. If you see air pollution, or haze, as it’s known, and it’s diminishing your view it’s likely violating the visibility rules.
Dilution is the solution to pollution.
The point here is that yes air pollution is a factor in the park and it likely impacts the visitors as well as the flora and fauna, however, if you don’t know what the data means don’t try to make something up.
Remember from junor high chemestry class, that concentrations for ozone, PM10, PM 2.5, Nitrogen Oxides, sulfur dioxide, and carbon monoxide, are measured in concentrations over time. the standard, or NAAQS are set by the EPA to protect human health and are measured by collecting samples of outdoor air over time. If concentrations of any one regulated pollutant exceed the standards, over time, there is a violation. These standards apply only to outdoor air. Health standards for occupational safety apply to closed spaces like that ranger check station. You cant possibly make any sense from adding up the total cubic feet of emissions -- that's a ridiculous exercise. Concentration is derived from a certain amount of pollutant in the presence of a known volume of air over a specific amount of time. Moreover, internal combustion engines all emit at different rates based on tuning, speed, altitude, fuel, and emissions controls. It takes very little "smoke" from a two stroke to pollute, beyond the standards, if given the right set of circumstances. The problem is that the standards and the methods for measuring concentrations of air pollution were not developed to capture air pollution in national parks nor were the standards designed to protect people from high concentrations of pollution over short durations, less than 12 hours. However, there are visibility standards that are much more sensitive to air pollution and those apply to the park too. In other words, visibility is a resource and federal agencies are charged with protecting visibility in our national parks. If you see air pollution, or haze, as it’s known, and it’s diminishing your view it’s likely violating the visibility rules.
Dilution is the solution to pollution.
The point here is that yes air pollution is a factor in the park and it likely impacts the visitors as well as the flora and fauna, however, if you don’t know what the data means don’t try to make something up.
JoseCuervo
New member
Bambistew,
My head hurt just trying to read Cheese's answer. It was painful. I am pretty sure with his limited edjumacation, he doesn't understand the difference betwix linear, square, and cubic measurements.
I am thankful that Nemont was able to inform him that his post was bullchit and the most stupid thing imaginable, saving me from having to blast him.
BHR,
I can't even try and compete with that answer by Cheese. It was just too painful....
MTMiller,
Yeah, I know WH didn't deserve it, but he has been too quiet lately, and I was hoping he could add more to a debate than pointing out my intentional mis-spellings in a post of intentional mis-use of words.
Can you imagine the amount of time the Cheese wasted trying to come up with the Tom-like numbers and this post, only to have everybody laugh at him???
My head hurt just trying to read Cheese's answer. It was painful. I am pretty sure with his limited edjumacation, he doesn't understand the difference betwix linear, square, and cubic measurements.
I am thankful that Nemont was able to inform him that his post was bullchit and the most stupid thing imaginable, saving me from having to blast him.
BHR,
I can't even try and compete with that answer by Cheese. It was just too painful....
MTMiller,
Yeah, I know WH didn't deserve it, but he has been too quiet lately, and I was hoping he could add more to a debate than pointing out my intentional mis-spellings in a post of intentional mis-use of words.
Can you imagine the amount of time the Cheese wasted trying to come up with the Tom-like numbers and this post, only to have everybody laugh at him???
Craig, some times you’re a funny guy... Well, some times...
Nope I can't, but reality is reality, and I'm sticking with that plan...
LOL... of course it was meant as a 'filler', to bring to point the silliness of arguments trying to utilize (what is perceived as) large numbers to make a point.
This is what really bothers people, and this is about the first I've really seen the root of the issue put into the light... (Glory hallaluja!!!)
So, lets quit sugar coating the issues, with other crap and say what really bothers most involved.... They don't like the noise
I had to go back over the beginning of the thread to see what you meant by "Your Friend" (I believe your referring to Sako) I honestly don't know the man, so I'm not getting your point on that part of the subject, one would think you should at least know some ones name before jumping to friend status.
Hmmm... Are we feeling a little growly today, or the life of the office getting to you???
This is one of the issues I see with a few of you guys in the know, when some one posts some thing they understand to be true as with the very first one on this thread and a few see a different picture because of their place in life, seem to see it necessary to jump right down that individuals throat and tickle his ass hole, just so your point can be made to sound more true.
It wouldn’t work like that if you did it at one of your business meetings, it wouldn’t work like that if you tried it in the news paper, it wouldn’t work like that if you were actually some bureaucrat or elected official. So, I guess there are issues with your approach when you also try it here…
All well!!! We all have our opinions, and well..... you have yours...
Finalshot...
This is my point exactly, just a little less wordy...
When I was in Jr. High, this stuff, including the ozone weren't the topics of interest or even on the curriculum.
and again guner/sybil, you post as if you know me beyond your own little box...
Boy Bob LeBlah, the only thing you’re thankful for shit head is the fact you don't have it in you to come up with any thing off the top of your pointy little head except cut and paste jobs or browbeating... Kind of simpleton wouldn’t you agree???
Besides, your going to blast me???
With what, your ammo has been pretty limp and sterile so far...
The only thing painful is the fact you have nothing… hmm…. Nope went back and re-read your stuff again, not a thing, unless insipient babble counts for some thing....
The numbers are real; you can get your handy dandy calculator out and see for yourself...
I do understand how you would think it must have taken a lot of time and effort seeing as the post extended far beyond copying some thing off the internet and pasting it here as gospel...
Nemont
Well-known member
chsr,
Do you think you have a problem if when you have 4 or 5 LONG posts and Finalshot can make the same point in a 6 word statement?
There are many things, other then noise, that are a problem with snowmobiles in the Park. Have you ever visited the park in the winter on a sled?
If I were you I would quit using filler and start using something that makes sense. Unless your goal is to be extra wordy.
I know nothing about tickling any guys asshole especially through his throat. Perhaps Brokeback Mountain will be held over in MSLA and you can take it in. Hear it is a big hit there.
Nemont
Do you think you have a problem if when you have 4 or 5 LONG posts and Finalshot can make the same point in a 6 word statement?
There are many things, other then noise, that are a problem with snowmobiles in the Park. Have you ever visited the park in the winter on a sled?
If I were you I would quit using filler and start using something that makes sense. Unless your goal is to be extra wordy.
I know nothing about tickling any guys asshole especially through his throat. Perhaps Brokeback Mountain will be held over in MSLA and you can take it in. Hear it is a big hit there.
Nemont
Nope, some can just say it better than others, simple enough...
Sorry to hurt your feelings for the long posts...
Metaphors are metaphors; the point was made and if you would like to think it has some thing to do with being a fag, I guess we all know where your mind actually sits.
I also wouldn't know, nor do I know the letter designator you posted, so that leaves every one but you in the dark. I would also guess that you have seen it, thats why you figure it's a big hit elsewhere...
And as for the little cartoon, I'm glad you could find it to give yourself a little pat on the back, it shows a shallowness I didn’t believe you had and of some one blowing their own horn...
JoseCuervo
New member
Cheese,
You are an idiot and a rude assh*le to treat MT and Nemont in that manner. Both of them have offered you suggestions to try and make you look less clueless than normal, and you disrespected both of them.
You should be embarrassed of your actions, and you owe both gentlemen an apology.l
You are an idiot and a rude assh*le to treat MT and Nemont in that manner. Both of them have offered you suggestions to try and make you look less clueless than normal, and you disrespected both of them.
You should be embarrassed of your actions, and you owe both gentlemen an apology.l
Nemont
Well-known member
chsr,
MSLA = Missoula. You are accusing me of shallowness? I only put that cartoon in there as filler.
Nemont
MSLA = Missoula. You are accusing me of shallowness? I only put that cartoon in there as filler.
Nemont
Bob LeBlah...
As if you would understand any thing you just stated
I as well as you can read between the lines, and the posts just ahead of mine weren't meant as any thing but what was received back, you and I both now it, so don't play the Stupid card...
You tell me and every one else reading this thread what else was meant by the comments.
I bet you can't. You’re getting to be more of a stupid fug every day…
What I posted was in direct action to how I was posted to, so enough with the shallow attempts at gasp and wonder... You’re not good at it.
Matter of fact, maybe you should find something you’re good at besides jerking off to your own posts.
Well thanks for the info...
'chsr, you don't owe me anything, all this is great entertainment in my opinion. As for the "bitch-slap" from Jeff, now that is some funny shit. Now I am ready to head to Happy Hour. Good luck with thread fellas. I hope there is some more humor for me to enjoy when I get back on-line Tues.
Now I am ready to head to Happy Hour. Good luck with thread fellas. I hope there is some more humor for me to enjoy when I get back on-line Tues.
Nemont
Well-known member
I am leaving for a few cold ones myself. Happy weekend. Craig, I am headed to Nelson on Sunday and Monday. You going to be around?
Nemont
Nemont
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