WOW WYOMING LAND GRAB

[88man]

Wyoming Is Considering A Massive Land Purchase That Could Bring Wealth To The State

The State of Wyoming is working on a massive land deal that would involve one million square acres across southern Wyoming.Occidental Petroleum is trying…

www.wyomingpublicmedia.org

 

[WapitiBob]

The kind of land grab I like.

 

[sbhooper]

I would not phrase it as a land grab. It is land that is going to be purchased with state revenue, that will benefit lots of people in the end. It could be a game changer for those that hunt antelope in those areas.

Maybe I don't see the big picture, but I cannot see anything bad about this.

 

[rwc101]

I would not phrase it as a land grab. It is land that is going to be purchased with state revenue, that will benefit lots of people in the end. It could be a game changer for those that hunt antelope in those areas.

Maybe I don't see the big picture, but I cannot see anything bad about this.

Pretty sure the title is what the kids call "clickbait."

 

[VikingsGuy]

Maybe I don't see the big picture, but I cannot see anything bad about this.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying I personally disagree with this purchase, just trying to broaden the perspective.

To a bunch of public land hunters (or at least those that don’t like corner-crossing ) this seems like an obvious good deal at the right price. But there are those that object on principle to large land ownership “by the king”. A number of states have had folks pushing statutes and even a few const. amendments that would severely restrict the acquisition of new land by governmental entities. In addition to “principle”, in states where property taxes fund a large portion of the local schools they don’t want to see land taken off the tax rolls.

 

[bullbugle]

Thankfully we get our schools funding partly through state lands. Some people even refer to them as "school sections". I don't know all the details, but I'd venture a guess that if OSLI bought this land up we'd have more direct funding for our schools than whatever property taxes we collect on those lands remaining private since our legislature probably spends a lot of that property tax money on other stuff while kicking the can down the road in terms of our looming education funding problems.

Yes, there will be naysayers in the Wyoming legislature who just don't like any form of the government owning land be it state or federal.

Another thing to consider in all of this is that the overall footprint of state trust lands in the state. Here's a recent quote from an article on Wyoming state lands. "The state land board has received guidance from the Legislature in the past to maintain ownership within 10,000 acres of a 1999 baseline amount of roughly 3.1 million acres."

If the legislature were to stick to that principle, a hell of a lot of state lands elsewhere could be sold as a result of such a large purchas.. If they sold landlocked lands that will probably never have access anyways, then this could be a win. However, it's worth considering that the state may end up selling a lot of state lands that are important for access elsewhere in the state as a result of buying all this land. So it could be a double edged sword.

 

[SAJ-99]

"...That Could Bring Wealth to State."

Sounds like Wyoming might need a refresher in the calculation of the present value of future cash flows. Hard to believe that Oxy would sell this for less than it's worth unless there are some tax benefits for them. I can't even image the process to determine the cost basis after all the mergers and acquisition that resulted in them obtaining the land.

 

[BuzzH]

Thankfully we get our schools funding partly through state lands. Some people even refer to them as "school sections". I don't know all the details, but I'd venture a guess that if OSLI bought this land up we'd have more direct funding for our schools than whatever property taxes we collect on those lands remaining private since our legislature probably spends a lot of that property tax money on other stuff while kicking the can down the road in terms of our looming education funding problems.

Yes, there will be naysayers in the Wyoming legislature who just don't like any form of the government owning land be it state or federal.

Another thing to consider in all of this is that the overall footprint of state trust lands in the state. Here's a recent quote from an article on Wyoming state lands. "The state land board has received guidance from the Legislature in the past to maintain ownership within 10,000 acres of a 1999 baseline amount of roughly 3.1 million acres."

If the legislature were to stick to that principle, a hell of a lot of state lands elsewhere could be sold as a result of such a large purchas.. If they sold landlocked lands that will probably never have access anyways, then this could be a win. However, it's worth considering that the state may end up selling a lot of state lands that are important for access elsewhere in the state as a result of buying all this land. So it could be a double edged sword.

THIS is what troubles me...

For the record, I don't believe there is 1 million acres of landlocked state ground to sell off...we'd be having to sell accessible stuff.

 

[88man]

Are there really over 1500 sections held by Occidental??

 

[JM77]

I have talked to one person connected in Cheyenne and one legislator about this so far. Neither could answer all my questions. Both seemed no more educated on this than what the news has been saying. Both said things are moving quickly, almost too quickly.

There could be a lot of good if this purchase happens, but many unanswered questions. It appears this land will be managed separately from trust lands. Several funding sources are being put into play and OSLI is being charged with management of these lands if purchased. Currently, OSLI is very busy, maybe understaffed and possibly not anywhere close to being ready for this.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I am not a resident of WY, so my opinion is largely irrelevant, but seems like a mess waiting to happen. If it was as simple as buying a bunch of inaccessible land and handing it over to F&G to manage for hunting, fishing and other recreation seems like an easy win. But, if the suggestion is that the state bureaucracy of WY is going to become a real estate and oil speculator and manage this as a profit center successfully enough to earn fund sufficient to give a proper ROI, this seems like a big miss. Lots of skilled real estate and oil/mineral experts go bankrupt every year trying this type of deal - seems unlikely a state agency will have better odds. They would do more for the coffers of WY by investing the $500 million in a good index fund.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I am not a resident of WY, so my opinion is largely irrelevant, but seems like a mess waiting to happen. If it was as simple as buying a bunch of inaccessible land and handing it over to F&G to manage for hunting, fishing and other recreation seems like an easy win. But, if the suggestion is that the state bureaucracy of WY is going to become a real estate and oil speculator and manage this as a profit center successfully enough to earn fund sufficient to give a proper ROI, this seems like a big miss. Lots of skilled real estate and oil/mineral experts go bankrupt every year trying this type of deal - seems unlikely a state agency will have better odds. They would do more for the coffers of WY by investing the $500 million in a good index fund.

What about just giving Oxy a 250 mill tax right off?

 

[VikingsGuy]

What about just giving Oxy a 250 mill tax right off?

Money is fungible, it's the same thing as writing them a check. Plus if the market is down and they are losing money, they may owe few taxes.

 

[ImBillT]

I’m all for consolidating checker board. My state buying the gaps on the other hand, would make me uneasy. Since it’s the tax payers of WY who will pay the price for any screw ups, have at it. When I go hunt pronghorn out there I might benefit.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I’m all for consolidating checker board. My state buying the gaps on the other hand, would make me uneasy. Since it’s the tax payers of WY who will pay the price for any screw ups, have at it. When I go hunt pronghorn out there I might benefit.

Good point - a better deal would be to find a traditional buyer for the 1 million acres (and 4 million mineral rights) who would land swap with state to consolidate the two surface holding into to contiguous parcels in favor of a smaller tax credit.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Money is fungible, it's the same thing as writing them a check. Plus if the market is down and they are losing money, they may owe few taxes.

The net effect is the same I agree, but it's a lot easier to easy their tax burden then to try and raise funds.

Bottom-line, this is a once in a generation opportunity. The OG market is in the tank currently and they can get this for a song. If Bernie or the like get's elected this opportunity will be gone.

 

[ImBillT]

Good point - a better deal would be to find a traditional buyer for the 1 million acres (and 4 million mineral rights) who would land swap with state to consolidate the two surface holding into to contiguous parcels in favor of a smaller tax credit.

There’s no question that would be better, however, can you imagine all the threads from blowhards on the forum about the state getting screwed based on which consolidated portion they got?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Good point - a better deal would be to find a traditional buyer for the 1 million acres (and 4 million mineral rights) who would land swap with state to consolidate the two surface holding into to contiguous parcels in favor of a smaller tax credit.

Honestly I hate the consolidation idea. I would rather have a bunch of chunks of land all over the place to spread out use.

 

[BuzzH]

Honestly I hate the consolidation idea. I would rather have a bunch of chunks of land all over the place to spread out use.

Yes...consolidation ends up with a situation you have to slug it out with the State Land Board over...ask me how I know.

 

[hossblur]

Schools? We all know Wyoming and Idaho both fund their schools from selling lottos to Utahns. Although I'm guessing now that we have neen granted partial adulthood, liquor tax revenue is probably down

Not a res. But as I watch the no yearly dumping of Utah lands, I'd applaud a state buying ground and licking it down. Especially if it's outside the trust system.

There are always details. But there isn't more dirt being made.

The squirelliness of bureaucracy sucks. But NO TRESPASSING SUCKS sucks worse.