Yukon Hunter
New member
DG/ Ten-
I take exception to your stance. But, then again, why argue semantics?
I take exception to your stance. But, then again, why argue semantics?
What Happened to Some of Ithaca's Posts?
- Thread starter BHR
- Start date
JoseCuervo
New member
Dgibson, the ThreadKiller....
What was a bubbling topic, has now had 5 posts of nothing....
dgibson
New member
Gunner, this thread was dead a long time ago...it just didn't know it.
Ten Bears
New member
Is it time to unplug the life support yet?
Ithaca 37
New member
BHR, "Ithaca's excitement about some sage grouse dieing of West Nile Virus in a post from the past is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Think about it."
Here was my reply, "Prove it, you simpleton, by giving us the exact quote and a link to it. Give us a link to the whole topic, too, so everyone can see that you're a liar. The problem is, BHR, you're incredibly stupid and now you're verifying it again. I'll be waiting for the link and your apology, again."
I'm still waiting.
Here was my reply, "Prove it, you simpleton, by giving us the exact quote and a link to it. Give us a link to the whole topic, too, so everyone can see that you're a liar. The problem is, BHR, you're incredibly stupid and now you're verifying it again. I'll be waiting for the link and your apology, again."
I'm still waiting.
Ten Bears
New member
IT said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I'd much rather see sage grouse thriving all over the West. This shows the problem when the welfare ranchers do everything possible to block the listing process and still don't do anything to help the species recover.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You still haven't been able to substantiate your claim that ranchers have done nothing to facilitate improvements for sage grouse.
IT:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It's real uncertain what effect listing will have on my hunting, so I don't know how to feel about it yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not a lot of remorse there. Leaves one to believe that if this had a positive effect on your other hunting, you'd be happy about the ordeal.
IT:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I do know that if this latest news scares the hell out of some welfare ranchers enough to make them take this problem seriously and start doing something to help the grouse recover it will be good for lots of other species. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Anything to attack the cattleman makes you happy. Final conclusion drawn from your statements; IT is overjoyed with sage grouse dieing from nile virus because it leaves another aveneue open to attack public land grazers, and any habitat improvements done for the sake of sage grouse will increase his hunting of exotic gamebirds.
No semantics involved.
You still haven't been able to substantiate your claim that ranchers have done nothing to facilitate improvements for sage grouse.
IT:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It's real uncertain what effect listing will have on my hunting, so I don't know how to feel about it yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not a lot of remorse there. Leaves one to believe that if this had a positive effect on your other hunting, you'd be happy about the ordeal.
IT:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I do know that if this latest news scares the hell out of some welfare ranchers enough to make them take this problem seriously and start doing something to help the grouse recover it will be good for lots of other species. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Anything to attack the cattleman makes you happy. Final conclusion drawn from your statements; IT is overjoyed with sage grouse dieing from nile virus because it leaves another aveneue open to attack public land grazers, and any habitat improvements done for the sake of sage grouse will increase his hunting of exotic gamebirds.
No semantics involved.
JoseCuervo
New member
Shouldn't all hunters want habitat improvments that will increase hunting opportunities????
Ten Bears
New member
Not always, I support some habitat improvements that will not benefit a single "huntable" species. Too be undecided about the listing of one species until you know how it will benefit the huntability of another, exotics to boot, lacks an essence of sincerity of concern for the endangered species.
I will say that Sagegrouse are a hot topic in UT and that there are many groups working to bring them back. Many of these groups are headed or actively participated in by ranchers. They're seeing that a small change now to benefit the species is much better than what they could be faced with if it is listed. It's pretty cool to see a group involving members from the Audobon (sp?) Society and a local cow-poke working together. Especially interesting given that many of the changes needed to help the sagegrouse also benefit livestock.
1_P, the same thing is happening here, only with Mountain Plover. The Rocky Mountain Bird Observatory has started a program here that allows farmers to call at least 72 hours before working their land, and the RMBO will go out, survey for, and mark nests on their property. The farmer can then avoid the nest (they only have to swing around them by a couple of feet, the birds don't abandon the nest). The farmers are generally willing to work with the RMBO if it means the plover is not listed.
Here's the website that tells a little bit about the work they're doing with landowners:
http://www.rmbo.org/conservation/partners.html
Oak
Here's the website that tells a little bit about the work they're doing with landowners:
http://www.rmbo.org/conservation/partners.html
Oak
Ithaca 37
New member
Ten, You poor simpleton. "You still haven't been able to substantiate your claim that ranchers have done nothing to facilitate improvements for sage grouse."
I never said no rancher has ever done anything. Maybe some rancher has. Sage grouse are closer to being listed today than they were a year ago.
"quote:
"It's real uncertain what effect listing will have on my hunting, so I don't know how to feel about it yet."
"Not a lot of remorse there. Leaves one to believe that if this had a positive effect on your other hunting, you'd be happy about the ordeal."
Moron! Here are my options for how to feel about sage grouse listing, depending on how it affects my hunting:
1. Happy
2. Very happy
3. Ecstatic
Ten, I really do wish you were smarter.
I never said no rancher has ever done anything. Maybe some rancher has. Sage grouse are closer to being listed today than they were a year ago.
"quote:
"It's real uncertain what effect listing will have on my hunting, so I don't know how to feel about it yet."
"Not a lot of remorse there. Leaves one to believe that if this had a positive effect on your other hunting, you'd be happy about the ordeal."
Moron! Here are my options for how to feel about sage grouse listing, depending on how it affects my hunting:
1. Happy
2. Very happy
3. Ecstatic
Ten, I really do wish you were smarter.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Ten Bears, don't you think it is very unlikely that any kind of habitat improvements, whatever those may be, would only benefit one species? In the case of the sage grouse, wouldn't improvements in sagebrush habitat also benefit deer, elk, antelope and numerous other non-game species?
WH-
For the most part, I don't think the habitat improvements for sage grouse would help out deer. The biggest problem (at least in UT) for sage grouse is the lack of grasses and forbs in the understory. This is a small part of the diet of deer, which are limited by shrub forage in the winter. Often times, sagebrush must be thinned to increase the grass/forb component. The overgrazing early in this century resulted in an increase and spread of shrub dominated areas, which then helped cause the mule deer population increase that peaked in the '60s.
IT- I know that in UT the sage grouse are doing better and are on an upward trend. All sage grouse hunt units increased the number of permits this year, some nearly 100%, over last year. However, I still don't think I'd call it good yet.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-23-2003 06:22: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>
For the most part, I don't think the habitat improvements for sage grouse would help out deer. The biggest problem (at least in UT) for sage grouse is the lack of grasses and forbs in the understory. This is a small part of the diet of deer, which are limited by shrub forage in the winter. Often times, sagebrush must be thinned to increase the grass/forb component. The overgrazing early in this century resulted in an increase and spread of shrub dominated areas, which then helped cause the mule deer population increase that peaked in the '60s.
IT- I know that in UT the sage grouse are doing better and are on an upward trend. All sage grouse hunt units increased the number of permits this year, some nearly 100%, over last year. However, I still don't think I'd call it good yet.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-23-2003 06:22: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>
Ten Bears
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Ten Bears, don't you think it is very unlikely that any kind of habitat improvements, whatever those may be, would only benefit one species? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not always.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> In the case of the sage grouse, wouldn't improvements in sagebrush habitat also benefit deer, elk, antelope and numerous other non-game species? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There is no true good for one / good for all improvement that I know of.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> In the case of the sage grouse, wouldn't improvements in sagebrush habitat also benefit deer, elk, antelope and numerous other non-game species? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There is no true good for one / good for all improvement that I know of.
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