Utah Once in a lifetime Mountain Goat Tag

[teej89]

I've never applied for this tagand was purchasing my elk point last night and it got me to thinking. It would be really cool to potentially draw this tag but after looking at the draw odds for a NR I was like but it doesn't seem like too many people stick to buying points after say 6 points.... drops from 718 apps to 67 apps....

Is this tag worth pursuing? I question it because I'm a little new to buying points for tags and after hearing randys podcast about bighorn sheep and the fact the points system is so overloaded with the older guys already have 20+ points making it impossible for the newbies coming into the game late. However I'm not sure if this really relates to the mountain goat tags.

Any input would be great, thanks guys! And sorry if I come off with any ignorance, i'm a greenhorn to the points systems.

T.J.

 

[Big Fin]

What you have observed is not because people at high levels are buying points. The reason it drops is because until 6 years ago, non-residents could only apply one of three;

deer
elk
antelope

and non-residents could only apply for one of the one-in-a-lifetime tags below

bison
goat
sheep
moose

When that changed six years ago, no-residents could apply for all of the above. And non-residents started applying for those species in big numbers. Big money raiser for UT DWR. Now, for all species, you see a huge drop in point totals that coincides with the year that change happened.

 

[teej89]

What you have observed is not because people at high levels are buying points. The reason it drops is because until 6 years ago, non-residents could only apply one of three;

deer
elk
antelope

and non-residents could only apply for one of the one-in-a-lifetime tags below

bison
goat
sheep
moose

When that changed six years ago, no-residents could apply for all of the above. And non-residents started applying for those species in big numbers. Big money raiser for UT DWR. Now, for all species, you see a huge drop in point totals that coincides with the year that change happened.

oh shoot, I thought that was odd the huge drop in apps after 6pts. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[mtmiller]

What you have observed is not because people at high levels are buying points. The reason it drops is because until 6 years ago, non-residents could only apply one of three;

Yes. Thanks UT for making my 14 goat points very weak.

 

[teej89]

Yes. Thanks UT for making my 14 goat points very weak.

Only because I'm new at this, you lost me with this comment.... How did this affect you? I'm just curious in learning more.

 

[utah400elk]

There are now 1000s of people putting in for a few tags. Before the switch there were only 100s. It made a significant difference in odds. The odds for all Utah OIL now became more like the Powerball lottery.

 

[teej89]

There are now 1000s of people putting in for a few tags. Before the switch there were only 100s. It made a significant difference in odds. The odds for all Utah OIL now became more like the Powerball lottery.

Oh okay, I get that. But if you were putting in for prior to this then wouldn't you be ahead of the game? Maybe i'm misunderstanding the Utah draw... is it like CO where top points go first or is it a bonus point system where you just have more tickets in the raffle?

Edit: ahhhh nvm they're bonus points, I get it now. My bad, for some reason I thought they were preference points.

 

[basal_area]

It seems to me that all of these hunts with very low numbers of tags and very low odds of drawing are simply a suckers bet by the various states to pull in as much out of state money as possible. I refuse to play along.

That having been said, I'm somewhat spoiled in that I live in a state (Idaho) that does not have a point system and the over the counter deer and elk opportunities far exceed the time I have available to hunt. I am applying for other species (WY antelope) where I have a reasonable chance of drawing a decent tag every other year or so.

 

[utah400elk]

I put in for the "sucker bets". I know I am wasting $10 but its better than going to the expo and feeling dirty!

 

[Oak]

It only costs you $10 to apply for goat if you are applying for other species. A friend of mine drew a NR UT goat tag with 3 points and killed an all-time B&C billy. It's definitely a sucker's bet, but someone wins every year. Consider it a $10 raffle ticket.

Sorry Miller.

 

[mtmiller]

It only costs you $10 to apply for goat if you are applying for other species. A friend of mine drew a NR UT goat tag with 3 points and killed an all-time B&C billy. It's definitely a sucker's bet, but someone wins every year. Consider it a $10 raffle ticket.

Sorry Miller.

At this point I am in for the long haul. Raffle tickets for a few species in UT. With my 15 deer points, Henry is just around the corner.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Almost all NR draws are sucker bets, until you draw.

Up to 10% is a sucker bet in Idaho is a sucker bet of ~$150. If you draw it's fine, if you do not draw it's $150 down the tube provided that you do not hunt the OTC.

New Mexico is nice, because they refund the $65 license fee, but with a cap of 6% it's a sucker bet.

Utah in a lottery system would still be a sucker bet with the availability of tags.

 

[LopeHunter]

If there is just one NR tag in the draw then that tag is awarded in a RANDOM draw. Points be damned.

If are two or more tags then 1 would be based on who has most points (or one of the group if several have the most points). 50/50 split but RANDOM always gets at least if not more tags than the point draw portion.

Until the NR pool was pillaged to get the 200 tags for the Welfare Expo political stooge slush fund event, there were several OIL that had 2 or more tags in the draw. Not so much anymore. For example, Desert Bighorn has 1 tag so points do not come into play for a NR.

Bundy fits right in in UT.