Urban Deer In Rawlins, Wyoming, Are Dropping Newborn Fawns On People’s Porches

[WyoDoug]

I am reposting this thread to address my concerns with intercity wildlife conservation and health. First, with deer and antelope we are seeing people wanting to "rescue" fawns who appear abandoned and most people do contact WGF when they do this. Fawns rescued in this manner generally get euthanized because human scent on fawns causes does to sometimes abandoned their young.

If you move into primary habitat areas you have to expect contact with wildlife of various types. In Cheyenne, we have seen moose, elk, deer, bear, antelope, mountain lion, foxes, lot of squirrels, doves, geese and ducks. People like to feed these and that causes a lot of issues, one with wildlife losing the fear of humans and recognizing humans as a food source. We are having a major problem with squirrels chewing bark of trees and killing a bunch of them. They also chew on houses and find their nesting spots in attics and that. The City of Cheyenne has put out notices several times not to feed wildlife.

Not only that, I posted an article a few years back where a herd of deer browsed on alfalfa. A number of them died of starvation even though they had full stomachs. The problem reported was that the deer were not used to alfalfa as a food source and had not developed rumen capable of digesting it. Feeding wildlife can have more harm than good.

What wildlife officers and the City are trying to do is get people to enjoy watching wildlife but not to feed them or disturb their young.

Urban Deer In Rawlins, Wyoming, Are Dropping Newborn Fawns On People’s Porches

A herd of deer moved into Rawlins, Wyoming, decades ago and have been an annoyance ever since, says one local longtime resident. But she was still touched to find a newborn fawn outside her house.

cowboystatedaily.com

 

[gwhunter]

From Auburn University:

"Myth: If a human touches a fawn, its mother won’t accept it.
Fact: If a fawn has been handled by a human and has human scent on it, the doe will still accept the fawn. She just spent 7 months carrying this fawn. A little human scent won’t make her give it up."

 

[Caseknife]

From Auburn University:

"Myth: If a human touches a fawn, its mother won’t accept it.
Fact: If a fawn has been handled by a human and has human scent on it, the doe will still accept the fawn. She just spent 7 months carrying this fawn. A little human scent won’t make her give it up."

But why take the chance, leave the little bugger there unless it plops itself down right in the middle of the road which they sometimes do.

 

[gwhunter]

But why take the chance, leave the little bugger there unless it plops itself down right in the middle of the road which they sometimes do.

I wasn't saying we should encourage people touching newborn fawns. Only pointing out that there was some lore in the original post that has since been refuted.

 

[WyoDoug]

From Auburn University:

"Myth: If a human touches a fawn, its mother won’t accept it.
Fact: If a fawn has been handled by a human and has human scent on it, the doe will still accept the fawn. She just spent 7 months carrying this fawn. A little human scent won’t make her give it up."

Key word in my statement "sometimes". I am not sure about the credibility of the "Fact" you cited. There is history of this with WGF and with FWS. FWS officers had to euthanise a bison calf that a tourist "rescued" and put in their van. They could not get the mother to accept the calf back. There is history with the various wildlife services if you just contact a biologist. As someone else posted, why take the chance. Let wildlife be and let mother nature take whatever course she chooses. Wildlife young are not always abandoned but the risk is there and you do not want to handle the young yourself but leave it to professionals who know what they are doing.

 

[gwhunter]

Key word in my statement "sometimes". I am not sure about the credibility of the "Fact" you cited. There is history of this with WGF and with FWS. FWS officers had to euthanise a bison calf that a tourist "rescued" and put in their van. They could not get the mother to accept the calf back. There is history with the various wildlife services if you just contact a biologist. As someone else posted, why take the chance. Let wildlife be and let mother nature take whatever course she chooses. Wildlife young are not always abandoned but the risk is there and you do not want to handle the young yourself but leave it to professionals who know what they are doing.

Hey Doug,

I can absolutely give you my reference to ensure credibility:

Mark D. Smith, Extension Specialist and Assistant Professor, Stephen S. Ditchkoff, Associate Professor, and James B. Armstrong, Extension Specialist and Professor, all with the School of Forestry and Wildlife Sciences, Auburn University

Again, I wasn't attempting to encourage people to touch, disturb, or interfere with newborn wildlife. Only point out that some of these 'old wives tales' regarding touching animals and the parent "abandoning" them are actually myths and could cause people to make other implications or assumptions based on that information.

What cheese were we talking about again? Or was it 'hat sauces'?

 

[WyoDoug]

Hey Doug,

I can absolutely give you my reference to ensure credibility:

Mark D. Smith, Extension Specialist and Assistant Professor, Stephen S. Ditchkoff, Associate Professor, and James B. Armstrong, Extension Specialist and Professor, all with the School of Forestry and Wildlife Sciences, Auburn University

Again, I wasn't attempting to encourage people to touch, disturb, or interfere with newborn wildlife. Only point out that some of these 'old wives tales' regarding touching animals and the parent "abandoning" them are actually myths and could cause people to make other implications or assumptions based on that information.

What cheese were we talking about again? Or was it 'hat sauces'?

There is absolutely conflicting studies out there. Touching young animals is not ALWAYS a death sentence for them but all too many times it is. It happens more with the smaller wildlife like birds and rabbits than it does with deer but it does happen. But in this article that is the least of my concern. I am more concerned with wildlife getting too comfortable with humans as a food source. We had over $5K in damageto our house from squirrels that the neighbors were feeding.

 

[Sheltowee]

FWS officers had to euthanise a bison calf that a tourist "rescued" and put in their van. They could not get the mother to accept the calf back.

Pretty sure that was debunked, by no less than the esteemed Jim Heffelfinger. Otherwise, how do you explain wildlife biologists collaring/tagging fawns and turning them back to their herds? It seems like this bison calf may have been abandoned by its mother, for whatever reason, prior to the tourists intervening.

That said, I agree with you on your point-- don't be an idiot and mess with baby wildlife.

 

[WyoDoug]

Pretty sure that was debunked, by no less than the esteemed Jim Heffelfinger. Otherwise, how do you explain wildlife biologists collaring/tagging fawns and turning them back to their herds? It seems like this bison calf may have been abandoned by its mother, for whatever reason, prior to the tourists intervening.

That said, I agree with you on your point-- don't be an idiot and mess with baby wildlife.

I guess some people you are running a pointless argument with them discussing issues. No, it has not been debunked. And it was Yellowstone National Park officials handling it.

Hawaii man pleads guilty and is fined following death of Yellowstone bison calf

Park staffers euthanized the newborn bison calf after the man helped it out of a river and after its herd then rejected it.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[gwhunter]

There is absolutely conflicting studies out there. Touching young animals is not ALWAYS a death sentence for them but all too many times it is. It happens more with the smaller wildlife like birds and rabbits than it does with deer but it does happen. But in this article that is the least of my concern. I am more concerned with wildlife getting too comfortable with humans as a food source. We had over $5K in damageto our house from squirrels that the neighbors were feeding.

Hey Doug,

Thanks for letting me know this isn't a hard and fast rule. I wouldn't want to be posting wrong information or making an uniformed opinion. I tried finding some of the studies confirming the smaller animals like birds and actually found any of the recent publications saying it was even MORE a myth with animals like birds:

If there's one thing everyone knows about baby birds, it's that you're not supposed to pick them up. If you do, the mother bird will smell the residue of your stinky human hands on her baby, and leave the piteously crying chick there to die, right? Wrong, says Miyoko Chu, a biologist at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology. "Birds don't have a very strong sense of smell ," she said, "so you won't leave a scent that will alarm the parent"

From Alaska Department of Fish and Game wildlife biologist Elizabeth Manning:
If a person touches a bird’s nest, a baby bird or another baby animal, will that cause the adults to abandon their young because of human scent?

A: This is essentially a myth, but one that no doubt started to help prevent people from disturbing wildlife. According to a 2007 article in Scientific American, this prevalent belief that the scent of humans leads to nest abandonment is “for the birds” and denies basic bird biology and “animal parents’ innate drive to nurture their broods.” To begin with, most birds can’t smell well. With the exception of some birds such as starlings or turkey vultures that are able to hone in on certain scents linked to their food sources, most birds have a limited sense of smell.

From Scientific America: No matter how flighty birds appear, they do not readily abandon their young, especially not in response to human touch, says Frank B. Gill, former president of the American Ornithologists' Union. "If a bird's nest is disturbed by a potential predator during the nesting or egg-laying stage," he says, "there's a possibility that [it] will desert and re-nest. However, once the young are hatched and feeding, [their parents are] by and large pretty tenacious."

Again, not supporting disturbing baby (or any) wildlife. And not trying to argue. It's just that the only evidence I can find supports that everything you said is old folklore and myth. Can you pass along the "conflicting studies"?

 

[WyoDoug]

I think we are arguing on two completely different tangents, needlessly.

(1) There is history of new born animals behing euthanized due to humans handling them and the mother failing to return for them. I do know that some CPW and WGF wildlife officers and biologists have told me about mother of young rabbits detecting human scent and rejecting young that had been handled by humans.

(2) As for human scent being on the young, I am not a biologist and not gonna pretend to be. I do not know enough about that with specific animals to make a viable argument on that tangent.

 

[Djfan]

When we lived there, they used to come into our backyard a lot. Never saw a fawn left there. Some massive bucks, though.

 

[WyoDoug]

When we lived there, they used to come into our backyard a lot. Never saw a fawn left there. Some massive bucks, though.

We get antelope going up and down the alley now and then. Never saw deer there but we saw both deer and elk at the park off Parsley.

 

[gwhunter]

I think we are arguing on two completely different tangents, needlessly.

10-4 good buddy!

I'd rather argue a good parm vs. my favorite munster! Although one is a firm cheese and the other is semi-soft...so is it even worth arguing over?

 

[WyoDoug]

10-4 good buddy!

I'd rather argue a good parm vs. my favorite munster! Although one is a firm cheese and the other is semi-soft...so is it even worth arguing over?

Ick. You keep that munster crap away from me. I hate that stuff more than @Big Fin hates pucky.

 

[WYelker]

Key word in my statement "sometimes". I am not sure about the credibility of the "Fact" you cited. There is history of this with WGF and with FWS. FWS officers had to euthanise a bison calf that a tourist "rescued" and put in their van. They could not get the mother to accept the calf back. There is history with the various wildlife services if you just contact a biologist. As someone else posted, why take the chance. Let wildlife be and let mother nature take whatever course she chooses. Wildlife young are not always abandoned but the risk is there and you do not want to handle the young yourself but leave it to professionals who know what they are doing.

So how exactly would they know who the mother was if the tourist picked it up and drove around with it?

Sorry but I have worked on several neonatal deer studies where we go and handle the mule deer fawns with in hours of being born, fit them with collars etc. Never saw a fawn abandoned by the mother… we were quick and left the fawn where we found it and often times had to keep the mom at bay..

 

[WyoDoug]

So how exactly would they know who the mother was if the tourist picked it up and drove around with it?

Sorry but I have worked on several neonatal deer studies where we go and handle the mule deer fawns with in hours of being born, fit them with collars etc. Never saw a fawn abandoned by the mother… we were quick and left the fawn where we found it and often times had to keep the mom at bay..

You know you almost make my point for me. You appear to be a biologist or wildlife officer at first reading. Point is for us layman types is do not disturb wildlife how good your intent may be. Professionals know what they are doing. I never said rejection of young by the mother is automatic but the longer young are taken away from their mother lessens the chance of return or even locating the mother at all. In the case of that bison calf a tourist put in the back of his van, the park rangers were not successful in returning it to the herd and had to euthanize it. It causes more harm than good when laymen attempt to rescue wildlife because they usually do not know what they are doing in the first place.

 

[WyoDoug]

But having responded to @WYelker, the focus needs to be on people feeding the wildlife and getting them used to humans as a food source, which is harmful in more ways than one especially when it is not food types commonly available through foraging on their own. I put the sidenote in on people thinking they are rescuing wildlife by putting them in the back of their vehicles. That part is a very small part of the problem of innercity wildlife. The biggest problem we have in Cheyenne is banded doves and squirrells. Doves leave a nasty mess for everyone to clean up if you get too many and Cheyenne has an issue with squirrels chewing on tree bark and killing trees. We also had over $5,000 in damage done by a squirrel lately that chewed it'[s way into our attic and made a nest. Wildlife management including habitat and feeding needs to be managed by professionals and not by well meaning people feeding them food they are not used to or that is not available naturally in the wild.

 

[WYelker]

But having responded to @WYelker, the focus needs to be on people feeding the wildlife and getting them used to humans as a food source, which is harmful in more ways than one especially when it is not food types commonly available through foraging on their own. I put the sidenote in on people thinking they are rescuing wildlife by putting them in the back of their vehicles. That part is a very small part of the problem of innercity wildlife. The biggest problem we have in Cheyenne is banded doves and squirrells. Doves leave a nasty mess for everyone to clean up if you get too many and Cheyenne has an issue with squirrels chewing on tree bark and killing trees. We also had over $5,000 in damage done by a squirrel lately that chewed it'[s way into our attic and made a nest. Wildlife management including habitat and feeding needs to be managed by professionals and not by well meaning people feeding them food they are not used to or that is not available naturally in the wild.

Haha. No I don’t think people feeding town deer has any real net affect on the animals. I do know this of the 14 deer we fed all winter, 0 died and at least 6 have fawns now… just outside of town there are no fawns at all and over 1/2 of those deer would have been dead. Would the game and fish approve? No, but damned if I was going to sit and watch them starve to death in my front yard… So
In some cases feeding is not nearly the problem it is made out to be… Especially when we are taking about town deer that won’t leave…

Invasive doves need shot and tree rats will destroy everything…

 

[RemingtonRules]

From Auburn University:

"Myth: If a human touches a fawn, its mother won’t accept it.
Fact: If a fawn has been handled by a human and has human scent on it, the doe will still accept the fawn. She just spent 7 months carrying this fawn. A little human scent won’t make her give it up."

Auburn people touching animals, makes sense.