Nick87
Well-known member
I'm afraid that's right.
Ukraine / Russia
- Thread starter Cheesehead
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
Exactly. Being concerned about how your money is spent is a good thing as long as it is with understanding that it is beneficial to have allies and building those relationships takes time and money. I cited the example of Venezuela earlier. Implement sanctions in 2019 and feel great about it, only to see thousands of immigrants show up at our doorstep after the economy collapses. It is literally impossible to know what is the best economic tradeoff on any of these. I am sure that we will continue to send money to a lot of countries. The only thing that supports the idea is we have had it pretty safe on our side of the ocean compared to the rest of the world.
@npaden, sorry, and I get your point, but everything is political to some degree. You see that here. First it was "don't support them because they can't win", then it was "don't support them because Putin will use nukes", and now it is "don't support them because of the budget deficit". As far as updates, I try to keep abreast, but hard to trust anything on this interwebby thingy.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
$$$$ to foreigners is a tired trope. Setting aside a proxy war vs Russia, we spend well less than 0.5% of federal budget on foreign aid (incl. military). The UK, Sweden, Norway and several others out spend us by a wide margin on a percentage basis. If we spent $0 dollars outside our boarders we would only shrink 2023 fiscal year deficit by 3%. The only reason it comes up so often is our fear/hatred of "the other" and our complete lack of understanding of where our money really goes.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Here's an additional concern I see as valid:
www.wsj.com
The CSIS did some war gaming, showing our investment in Ukraine could result in shortages in other, arguably more important arenas, if the need for weapons in those places arose:
www.cbsnews.com
Regardless, one thing I do think we and Ukraine should clearly understand, is that they would've been ruined already if not for us. The US is bankrolling and supplying this war for them, and thus, they really shouldn't do anything we don't approve of. Maybe it's because I am old enough to clearly remember how the United States behaved post-9/11, but I smell hubris in the air about our ability to be involved in a seemingly increasing amount of arenas across the globe, more than a couple seeming to be as important as the other. War drums, banging away.
Pentagon Sees Months Left in Supply of Weapons for Ukraine
The Pentagon has $5.2 billion in aid for Ukraine remaining after Congress passed a short-term spending bill that omitted more funding for the war effort, Pentagon officials said.
www.wsj.com
The CSIS did some war gaming, showing our investment in Ukraine could result in shortages in other, arguably more important arenas, if the need for weapons in those places arose:
U.S. could face possible weapons shortage as it continues to supply military aid to Ukraine, war game shows
A recent war game showed that the U.S. would run out of a key weapon while trying to stop a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
www.cbsnews.com
Regardless, one thing I do think we and Ukraine should clearly understand, is that they would've been ruined already if not for us. The US is bankrolling and supplying this war for them, and thus, they really shouldn't do anything we don't approve of. Maybe it's because I am old enough to clearly remember how the United States behaved post-9/11, but I smell hubris in the air about our ability to be involved in a seemingly increasing amount of arenas across the globe, more than a couple seeming to be as important as the other. War drums, banging away.
Rainer
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Anyone else just stop and question the fact that they say they don't have the resources to continue to help the Ukrainians but have the resources to help Israel? or that the Pentagon has failed the last 5 audits and can't account for 60% of the yearly defense budget? should that not be addressed before anything else?
Just like the pharmaceutical industry doesnt want to cure diseases, the American gov doesnt want to end wars. A slow rolling stalemate is much more profitable. Its all about money. As the (current) global reserve currency we have that luxury of running deficits and printing money. We are beyond broke though and it (our gov and economy) will come crashing down thanks to reckless spending.
longbow51
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- Feb 17, 2023
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We can afford two wars. Janet Yellen said so. And inflation is temporary.
KB_
Well-known member
I think it should be addressed and its pathetic it has not, and there doesnt seem to be any consequences for it. I'm not saying to shouldnt be there for our ally in a time of need. But we need to start seeing some checks and balances in place so when we run into an Israel getting attacked situation, we know what we can do.
But no we just keep printing money cause nobody wants to do the math. However unless its adding zeros to folks bank accounts I think they just ignore it at this point.
Here we are Israel was attacked and we now have a major conflict there. Focus on Ukraine is dwindling even though an entire generation of men may now be gone.
I was looking into that raid from a post earlier and it looks like they are trying to grab some territory to prep for a major offensive. Id expect something major to happen over the next 4 months if they are successful.
BrentD
Well-known member
longbow51
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I can't claim to be an expert about global macroeconomics, though I can read a balance sheet, and maybe we're at the point where mom and dad cut off the credit cards for a while.
As far as pharm goes, they do some shady things (here's looking at you Pfizer and Purdue), but to say there are no cures is not fair. Leukemia and other blood cancers are very curable, as are prostate and breast. And I know of a company that is working on a drug that, so far, eliminates multi-drug resistance in cancer cells. And people that aren't elderly rarely die of infections compared to not all that long ago.
I'm sure whatever business you are in, someone is dishonest.
Heck, there are even, I've heard, honest lawyers. Oops, forgot we aren't on the Bigfoot thread
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Brinkmanship flex...
www.foxnews.com
Russia is closely monitoring US nuclear test in Nevada, Putin's spokesperson says
Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesperson said the Kremlin is closely monitoring a nuclear test carried out this week in Nevada, a report says.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
The US is not broke or bankrupt. Far from it. You are looking only at the debt/liability and freaking out at the all the zeros. You are not considering the assets at all. This happens because the government's ability to tax is what generates income (the asset side). And no one likes taxes. But to your point, if you look at every country, every country of material size is running a deficit. It is all Fugazi, fairy dust.
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
Paper money SAJ-99. Debt wheel is going start smoking.
Dow closes nearly 300 points lower after 10-year Treasury yield tops 5% for the first time since 2007: Live updates
A runup in Treasury yields rocked the equities market this week, leaving the major averages on pace for weekly losses.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
But that is driven by moving funds to "safe return" of treasuries - not concern we have too much debt.Paper money SAJ-99. Debt wheel is going start smoking.
Dow closes nearly 300 points lower after 10-year Treasury yield tops 5% for the first time since 2007: Live updates
A runup in Treasury yields rocked the equities market this week, leaving the major averages on pace for weekly losses.www.cnbc.com
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
As long as we are international reserve currency and issue our debt in our own currency we can carry a much larger debt load than any other country. As said before, alienating the international finance/govt treasuries is a far bigger fiscal risk than the actual amount of debt we hold. Pushing Russia off SWIFT and into the arms of China has much greater consequences than an extra trillion here or there in debt total.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
...listen to this man.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Once in a while, the blind squirrel finds an acorn.
Higher Rates Stoke a Growing Chorus of Deficit Concerns
A long period of higher interest rates would make the government’s large debt pile costly, a possibility that is fueling a conversation about debt sustainability.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Normalization of yield curve. The narrative that "no one wants to buy our debt because we are bankrupt" is horseshit. Other countries buy our debt as a currency management tool. Japan has explicitly intervened in currency markets before and the Yen at 150 is a bigger problem for treasury rates than the amount of debt. We lived with artificially low rates for too long and now we have to get back to normal.Paper money SAJ-99. Debt wheel is going start smoking.
Dow closes nearly 300 points lower after 10-year Treasury yield tops 5% for the first time since 2007: Live updates
A runup in Treasury yields rocked the equities market this week, leaving the major averages on pace for weekly losses.
Large deficits and higher rates are a problem, but they just end up cutting into GDP growth (eventually). The ironic part is all the people who complained for 15yrs about not earning anything on their savings are now complaining that rates are too high. We have keep in mind that every expense is someone else's income.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Inflation is a backdoor tax increase as it forces taxpayers up into higher brackets, reduces real asset values and devalues current govt debt obligations.Once in a while, the blind squirrel finds an acorn.
Higher Rates Stoke a Growing Chorus of Deficit Concerns
A long period of higher interest rates would make the government’s large debt pile costly, a possibility that is fueling a conversation about debt sustainability.www.nytimes.com
This is a lousy substitute for rational tax policy in the first place as inflation pounds the fixed-income crowd disproportionately, but the govt is going to get the $$$ one way or another.
Handlebar
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If everyone is moving into treasuries wouldn't the rates being going down?
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