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Trophy in one book not in another.

wall hangers

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Jan 23, 2001
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67
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Jackson, Wyoming, USA.
After reading an article on a man who shot a white tail buck that would have been a new world record if his bow hadn`t exceded Pope and Young`s limit, I started thinking about this subject. I also have seen it a few times in other subject and with other weapons. What do you feel on this subject of rejecting a trophy because of standards in each weapon catagory? Examples of what I mean would be , if I shoot something with archery equipment should it be elligable in Pope and Young? If I hunt with a firearm should it be elligable for Boone and Crockett? If a group recognizes found antler but limits animals shot under legal laws with legal weapons is this resonable? Boone and Crockett recorded this archery killed buck number 3 in their book. As technology advances how and when do we change standards? What do you think? Any or part. WH
 

elkfarmer

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Jan 31, 2001
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423
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medina, new york
i believe the guy you are talking about shot that deer with a matthews bow. and because it has a 80% let off pope and young will not honor it. my buddy shot his biggest deer ever this year with his matthews, it scored enough for the book but wont be in there.

i dont agree with it at all, he still had to get the deer in bow range and make a killing shot on him. did the let off help, mabey but i know i held my 65% let off this year longer than he held his. anyways, it's a legal bow and p&y should start to accept them. i guess i would understand if the bows shot groups at 75 yards but they dont. there is no cheaten going on with them bows.
 

DKO

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Dec 11, 2000
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698
the Beatty buck will be scored and entered into boone & crockett (3rd) but is not elidgable for pope & young due to there entry criteria! B&C recognizes trophy animals ,to where P&Y is about hunter accomplishment.The standards were set long before the days of 80% letoff bows and should remain in place the way they are.Every archery manufacturer offers bows in 65% letoff and most that advertise 80% can be adjusted or built to 65%, its simply the rules of the club ,they drew the line in the sand and we have every option to cross it or stay behind it. JUST MY .02
 

GatoMan

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Jan 8, 2001
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IDAHO
In Oregon and Idaho the maximum let off is 65%, not exactly why but thats what it is, maybe something to do with using really high draw weights and being able to hold it for long periods of time without effort...the more weight ya draw basically faster you can shoot, and flatter your arrow will fly. I geuss thats why?
 

Twofingers_under

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Apr 2, 2001
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27
I responded to this same topic in the BOW section but I think its worth saying again.

Organizations like P&Y and B&C and SCI etc. are private clubs and as such they drafted a charter and passed bylaws. They have the perogative to decide under which circumstances an animal is acceptable for entry into their organizations record books. If 65% letoff is the standard then thats how it is until the voting membership of P&Y changes it to something different.

P&Y outlawed electronic devices attached to a bow and some folks are pissed about that too. I've seen posts at other sites where guys complained that the animals they shot in Africa were ineligible for P&Y because they're from Africa. Well guess what? Both P&Y and B&C have "North American Game" in their titles.

P&Y was wise in my opinion, to put equipment restrictions in place. Bow hunting has already gotten out of hand. P&Y saw the writing on the wall, as it were and attempted to use their influence to try and stem the increasing flow of gimmicky gadgetry that was rapidly infecting archery hunting.

Look at any bowhunting magazine. Half the pages are adds for all kinds of gizmos and/or bows that are designed to make you a "better" bowhunter with less effort. Now thats what its really all about, ain't it? Less Effort! Sure, the basic dynamics of drawing and holding the string at full draw with muscle power are still in place BUT if a device were invented that drew the bow for you, held it at full draw and shot it with accuracy, there would be a faction of so-called bowhunters who would absolutely scream that this new device is necessary.

Please remember that bowhunting was reintroduced by hunters who wanted more challenge from their hunting and so chose to hunt with a weapon with decidedly lesser capabilities than a rifle(in terms of effective range). It seems to me that every single innovation since then has been specifically designed to close the gap between rifles and bows.

If not for groups like the Pope and Young Club there would be heat-seeking arrows for sale because people, Americans in particular, don't ever know when to leave well enough alone.

Somebody, somewhere had to draw a line. The Beatty buck is still a fantastic animal regardless of whether or not it "qualifies" for a book.

If you hunt soley to get your name in a record book you are probably part of the problem.

BTW bows with greater than 65% let off are also illegal to hunt with in "Archery Only" hunts in Idaho.
 

wall hangers

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Jan 23, 2001
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Jackson, Wyoming, USA.
two fingers I agree with you on some of your statement. It is these organizations choice on what they allow in their book and their standards. I`m just thinking about the other side of the coin. I don`t have a vested interest in this topic because I do very little archery hunting. Mine is more of a what if, how come, why not interest. I wonder in the archery part as long as the basic ingredients of the bow and arrow are being used what do you feel is the basis for a denial? If you have a state legal bow, legal arrows and legal broadhead. I know that trophys have been taken with modern hunting equipment, not the long bow and recurve that was the bows when the clubs were formed. Is there a on going review of the achery equipment world? What about record classes for each different type of archery equipment? Long bow , recurve, compound to 65% let off, compound above etc. What`s do you all think? These same ideas could be asked about rifles and their changes for earlier times and also mussleloaders and their effect on their hunting organizatiions. WH
 

1_pointer

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Dec 20, 2000
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17,558
Location
Indiana
I agree with DKO. The P&Y is a PRIVATE club and therefore they can set the rules to their liking. If you want them to recognize your accomplishments then follow THEIR rules. I appreciate what these organizations have done for the sport of hunting, but I feel to much emphasis is placed on the score and rank of the animal. I feel that there could be a very bad backlash from this kind of thinking. The Rompola buck mystery is a prime example. Would someone fake (I'm not saying that he did) something like that if it wasn't for the record books?? I guess in that way I am quite conservative, the rules are there so play by them.
 
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