Training advice

[RyeGuy74]

Hello! I brought home my EC, and first bird dog, a little over a week ago and he's kept me quite busy with getting him use to me, my house, and a routine. Thanks to his puppy biting it looks like I tried to give a handshake to a chainsaw lol. I'm still working on his basic obedience but I was just wondering if any you experienced trainers/hunters had any advice for a new guy? Anything that maybe you wish you knew when you started? Whether it be the basic obedience part or field advice. I'm all ears! Thanks in advance! I've attached a pic of boy Chester because he's the best looking pup this side of the Mississippi!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

1. Crate train
2. Obedience is not negotiable
3. Don’t give commands you can’t reinforce
4. Obedience
5. Obedience

I like marker training for young dogs.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Differentiate play time and training, gotta have fun.

 

[406dn]

Crate training equals housebreaking. That is your first job.

Confining him for periods of time teaches him to hold it until you put him outside to do his business. When he has an inside accident, if you catch him in the act it is a perfect time to show your displeasure with his choice of restroom.

Then I use their name when ever I am talking to them, until they make the connection with their name.

I happen to run pointing dogs so your case is a bit different. But I start teaching whoa right away at dinnertime. You could start with whatever command you want to use for stay. I just set their food down in front of them, gently restrain them while saying whoa. Then release the restraint and when they start toward their food,, restrain them once again and say whoa again. They learn the meaning very quickly. I release them from the command with a light tough on the head and the command all right. They learn that even quicker.

Outside of that I don't put them into boot camp right away. The advice to only give commands when you can enforce them is absolutely true. You do not want to unwittingly teach the dog that your commands are empty threats.

Also, the dog wants to please you. Be a benevolent ruler. You are in charge but not in a punitive way.

 

[RyeGuy74]

Crate training equals housebreaking. That is your first job.

Confining him for periods of time teaches him to hold it until you put him outside to do his business. When he has an inside accident, if you catch him in the act it is a perfect time to show your displeasure with his choice of restroom.

Then I use their name when ever I am talking to them, until they make the connection with their name.

I happen to run pointing dogs so your case is a bit different. But I start teaching whoa right away at dinnertime. You could start with whatever command you want to use for stay. I just set their food down in front of them, gently restrain them while saying whoa. Then release the restraint and when they start toward their food,, restrain them once again and say whoa again. They learn the meaning very quickly. I release them from the command with a light tough on the head and the command all right. They learn that even quicker.

Outside of that I don't put them into boot camp right away. The advice to only give commands when you can enforce them is absolutely true. You do not want to unwittingly teach the dog that your commands are empty threats.

Also, the dog wants to please you. Be a benevolent ruler. You are in charge but not in a punitive way.

I know this looks bad on my part, but could you explain the "...only commands you can enforce" part? Please

 

[2ski]

I know this looks bad on my part, but could you explain the "...only commands you can enforce" part? Please

If the dog is 30 feet away from you and you say come, you can't enforce it, if it won't come back to you. So you say "come" when its in a hallway and has to go by you. It can't run away. Don't say "no" if its doing something you're annoyed with but can't or won't walk over and stop it from doing. This is all while its learning.

Basically don't give it the opportunity to not obey a command so that it learns that obeying you is optional.

Buy "How to help gun dogs train themselves" to give you a good start too. It talks about how you teach a dog to learn and you can teach it anything.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I know this looks bad on my part, but could you explain the "...only commands you can enforce" part? Please

For example, if you have not established a good recall with your dog, don’t tell him to come if he’s not on a leash or a long line so you can compel him to come if he doesn’t want to. Make sense?

 

[Salmonchaser]

My perspective, is much the same. Play time, initially, is in a relatively confined area, training can occur else where or there but your attitude is different.
I run GSPs, 8&9 years old that I’ve guided with since they were about a year old starting out.
Very little of their training was done with out a thirty foot lead. Some variation of whoa and here are the most important in my mind. Getting those down absolute will be much easier with a long lead.
Dog doesn’t come when you say, just draw him in. I also reinforce whoa, even today at meal time.

 

[406dn]

I know this looks bad on my part, but could you explain the "...only commands you can enforce" part? Please

Let's say your puppy in in the yard and you want it to come to you. He wants to keep playing. You say here or come and he continues to play. You have no way to enforce that command at that time.

I start with overlaying the command when they are already doing what I want. So, at first, when they are coming to me, I say Fido here. Then later, when they are in the yard, they are dragging a check cord of some length. Then if they do not come when called,, I can get the lead and drag them to me. Then I pet them up after they are pulled to me.

If you want to use an e collar,, there are lots of ways to use one. If you decide to use one,,,educate yourself on their use.

Basically with all of the commands you are ingraining a habitual response. It takes repetitions in a variety of circumstances before the dog realizes that the command applies in every situation. It does not happen overnight, all at once. It happens over time.

If your hand is too heavy, you can end up with a dog that fears you and doesn't trust you. If you don't convince your dog that you are the leader, the dog will do more or less what it wants. You need to thread that needle. It's not rocket science, you''ll figure it out.

You will make mistakes, that won't wreck a dog unless you persist in making the mistakes over and over.

 

[Salmonchaser]

My thoughts on E collar is it’s a tremendous tool once the dog knows the commands. I guided for 7 years with this pair. I still routinely reinforce here, whoa and out. We deal with a lot of porcupines and grizzly during the summer, rattlers in the fall. If I’m suspicious of a point I’ll out the the dog. Nothing like walking up on a point and finding a grizz instead of a ptarmigan.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Guess I'm old fashioned. I prefer "sit" and "stay". They have distinctive sounds. Whoa sounds too much like no. The latter is an essential part of a dog's vocabulary. Another one I use that's important for retreiving dog is "careful". Tease the pup with a treat and if he bites, withdraw and say careful as you offer it again. Repeat as needed till the pup takes it gently. Then work your way up to playtime with toys. When pup is getting too rough "careful" reminds it to ease up. Dogs often get too worked up with a bird, especially if it's still alive. "Careful" works well for to help them get a grip ... or rather less of one.

What is an EC? That just doesn't ring a bell for bird dog breed. Damn acronyms.

 

[406dn]

I took EC to mean English Cocker Spaniel. They are cool dogs. I've never had one but several friends have.

Dogs do not have any trouble discerning whoa from no. Just like there are lots of dog that answer to Joe or Bo who know their name, whoa, and no.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I took EC to mean English Cocker Spaniel. They are cool dogs. I've never had one but several friends have.

Dogs do not have any trouble discerning whoa from no. Just like there are lots of dog that answer to Joe or Bo who know their name, whoa, and no.

Thanks. Had I been able to see the pup's ears in that photo I'm sure I would have figured out that it's a cocker.

Sure, a dog may eventually discern the difference between commands that sound the same. Mine can respond to whole sentences: "Is it time? [to eat]" "Car ride?" "Where ya supposed to be? [sitting in the doorway while I pour dogfood]" etc. But in the beginning it makes training a pup more expeditious if all the commands and its name sound substantially different. I would never pick a name that sounds remotely like a command that is essential for safety in the field, like "No" and "Bo." In windy conditions or distance situations the dog could easily be confused. It's why I use "Wait!" instead of "Whoa!" But of course I need to be more careful about that because I don't use electronics on my dogs. Battery never wears out in my voice.

 

[406dn]

While I have chosen two syllable names for dogs quite often, there are advantages to having a real clean, clear one syllable name for a dog. One that can carry a distance in windy conditions.

A setter of some renown Shadow Oak Bo,,, call name Bo, learned what he needed to know well enough.

I've never had a dog confused by whoa. It can be barked or said very soothingly, depending. It is an absolutely perfect command when a dog is getting into an unsafe situation.

There are lots of ways to get to the same result.

 

[OntarioHunter]

While I have chosen two syllable names for dogs quite often, there are advantages to having a real clean, clear one syllable name for a dog. One that can carry a distance in windy conditions.

A setter of some renown Shadow Oak Bo,,, call name Bo, learned what he needed to know well enough.

I've never had a dog confused by whoa. It can be barked or said very soothingly, depending. It is an absolutely perfect command when a dog is getting into an unsafe situation.

There are lots of ways to get to the same result.

Yes, I had a Lab that could differentiate the same command for different situations. "Other side" could mean walk on the other side when I put the gun under the other arm, or it might mean the downed bird is on the other side of the creek (I primarily jump shot waterfowl in those days). She was never confused But that required many days in the field and walking up to the post office or grocery store (off leash always). And Ethyl was an extraordinary dog for sure.

Again, in the beginning I would advise anyone starting out a pup to choose commands and names that cannot be remotely confusing. Speeds things up. And, like people, some dogs just aren't as smart as others or as fast a learner. Keep it simple and avoid POTENTIAL obstacles.

Your logic for selecting single syllable names doesn't make much sense to me. If most of the commands in the beginning are single syllable, why pick a name that's also single syllable? At a distance or in the wind a barely audible two syllable shout would be more identifiable to the dog as his/her name (more than two syllables is too much noise). If the dog is out there or I'm hunting both, I'll use the whistle/hup and hand signals ... and call by name if necessary. Ellie and Puppy are very distinctive from "hup" or any other field command which is either single syllable (hup, wait, back) or a phrase ("Bring me the bird" ... with "Treat!" if she decides to parade with it a bit [a couple of milk bones in the bag can be real attention grabbers]). I can call one or all dogs in with single syllable voice command hup or whistle burst and pointing to my side (e.g. a train or car is coming). Two short bursts on the whistle means the dog is too far (and now usually one dog is with me while the other is hunting). It usually elicites the dog waiting till I release it in some direction. One LONG burst means all dogs better come in NOW. Usually someone is not paying attention. Admittedly, voice commands or whistle are now seldom needed in the field ... but I hunt with my dogs almost every day for several months every year.

 

[tim629]

standing stone kennels has a LOT of youtube and podcast content. they are GSP's but at this stage in the game a dog is a dog, as others have said hit the basics. if you don't mind reading a really good easy quick read is "Before & After getting your puppy by dr ian dunbar"

a leash or barricades in the house at the start are the easiest to keep an eye on or grab the pup quick when they are getting into trouble.

also you probably will go through a phase of almost hating your pup for a few days here and there, our gps is 4 months old and has gone from relaxed pup, to a landshark biting too often, to well behaved, and now he's a freaking kangaroo trying to explore what is above his eye level. there is nothing wrong with giving yourself a time-out by putting the pup back in it's crate while you decompress then go back to work with the dog later on

 

[Blevins1997]

They’ll be days you take 3 steps forward and 10 backwards. Be patient. Pups will be pups. There’s a reason finished dogs are so expensive

 

[David58]

I'm a believer in the E Collar, but one must be very careful using it. Our dogs have great recall, but I let them range and they can be out of sight or hearing distance - the "beep" brings em running. It is also a useful tool for trash training - deer and elk are very interesting, and with terriers (Airedales) they could stay on a deer or elk all the way across the county (that's a long way in NM). And interest in a snake, or bear, can be corrected, but the zap instead of beep is a last resort. Crate training worked very well, thought they are trustworthy and would likely make their displeasure with a crate known these days - they aren't kennel dogs, but are companions and live in the house with us.

As an aside, since you've been shaking hands with the chainsaw...Our second Airedale would chew my ankles as I walked - since we got her in the summer, i didn't usually have socks on so my ankles looked like I'd been whipped with a blackberry switch. To stop her, I would reach down and use my thumb and forefinger to kind of pinch her muzzle, with the intent of pressing her jowls or lips into her sharp little puppy teeth and say "no". Stopped the habit in a couple of days, ankles healed in a couple of weeks.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Perhaps the most important command to establish quickly is "Stop! [putting your nose in the lady's butt]." Good thing that one has a unique and distinctive sound.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Chester is a good choice for a name. Two syllables and unique sound so it will be easy for the pup to own it. I once knew a fella with a huge black Lab he named Bonaparte. "A few too many syllables, don't ya think?" "Yeah, I just call him Boner." Probably not in mixed company, I'll bet.