Training a GSP to retrieve

[JT88]

My wife and I got married in December, and as part of the deal I am now part owner of a 4 year old GSP. She's a great dog, very high rev and intelligent. I've taken her out grouse hunting a couple of times and she's learning quickly with a lot of natural instinct. The one thing she struggles with is retrieval. She likes to play keep away instead. She finds the birds I've shot but won't retrieve. I've also been hiding shed antlers and rewarding her with a treat when she finds them and brings them back to me, but she won't actually bring them to me. She stops short (where I can see her). She seems to think they're hers to keep, or it's some kind of a game. I thought by she would catch on that she only gets a treat once I have the antler but she seems to be regressing. She won't play fetch either.

Any ideas on what I should try?

 

[JT88]

We simultaneously spotted this whitetail shed on Saturday. I waited to see what she would do and she sniffed it and kept looking at me, waiting for me to pull out the jerky bag apparently . It was pretty cool since there were only 3 tines sticking out of the snow

 

[El Jason]

Better obedience and force fetch.

 

[stillkickin]

Yes, JLS is right on. You have a bit of untraining to do but it can be done.

if she has the aptitude and you have the patience she will come around.

A good resource:

The training and care of the versatile hunting dog: sigbot-winterhelt-edward-d-bailey: 9780966565614: Amazon.com: Books

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[JT88]

Thanks @JLS and @stillkickin . I will keep working on retrieval and obedience. She's wicked smart, but also stubborn to the point that she isn't always treat motivated if she makes up her mind to be a pain

 

[El Jason]

Do you use a collar for training? Treats/clicker training is a fabulous start, but at some point I personally feel you need to incorporate pressure in addition to rewards.

 

[golfer]

Do you use a collar for training? Treats/clicker training is a fabulous start, but at some point I personally feel you need to incorporate pressure in addition to rewards.

Using treats to train. How long do you use those treats before you scale back on the treats?

 

[El Jason]

Using treats to train. How long do you use those treats before you scale back on the treats?

You can always use random rewards, but I always introduce the e collar at about six months of age for general obedience, and then use it as part of the force fetch at about 12 months.

The only training I really do without the e collar on is when I have him on a tracking lead.

 

[BirdManMike]

Using treats to train. How long do you use those treats before you scale back on the treats?

Standard operant conditioning. As soon as you have the desired result every time, stop giving a reward every time.

 

[rideold]

Dogs do best with an 80/20 split of reward vs discipline. At least that's what I've been told by trainers. Seems to work for me when working with my dog. That said, there's no magic. If the dog isn't interested in retrieving then they aren't interested.....that's where forced fetch training comes in. I thought my GSP wasn't going to retrieve up until she was 1 1/2 or so. I kept working with her and now she does a pretty good job. I haven't gotten her to retrieve to hand but I'm not that motivated to get her there either. She's an overly sensitive dog with a strong will so I have elected to make some compromises in what I want her to do. Dropping things at my feet is just fine by me.

 

[JT88]

@JLS my wife tried an e-collar when she was a pup but it was only used a couple times because she didn't respond well to it. I dont think she's ever used a clicker. Both of those crossed my mind but I didn't know if it would work since she's 4 years old now...? I'm all for using it if it'll do her good. I don't know much about dog training. I guess I sort of assumed it wouldn't work very well now as an adult and I'd have to struggle through the old fashioned way and hope for the best

 

[El Jason]

@JLS my wife tried an e-collar when she was a pup but it was only used a couple times because she didn't respond well to it. I dont think she's ever used a clicker. Both of those crossed my mind but I didn't know if it would work since she's 4 years old now...? I'm all for using it if it'll do her good. I don't know much about dog training. I guess I sort of assumed it wouldn't work very well now as an adult and I'd have to struggle through the old fashioned way and hope for the best

You don't have to use a clicker, we just use a marker command of "yes" whenever Finn does what he's told to do. Sometimes that comes with a reward, but not always. I don't think 4 is too late to introduce this, particularly if obedience sounds like it's quasi-optional?

Collars can be damaging if you use them wrong. They aren't a substitute for training, they are just a part of it. You should never use a collar on a dog where you don't have a known command the dog will obey. I.e. if your dog knows the "come" command, but deems it optional at times, do this:

Put the collar on, start in a closed environment (a room, fenced yard, few distractions). Give Fido the "come" command and apply a light level of stimulation (should be just enough to make them tip their head a bit). Hold the stimulation in until Fido heads towards you then give your marker command and immediately release the stimulation. If Fido gets distracted, repeat the command and reapply stimulation. You are teaching the dog to yield to pressure. If you're then in an environment where there are distractions, you may have to use a stronger level of stimulation. That's fine, just don't fry and dog and wreck them. I hold the collar in my hand and grip it, so I can feel what each level is like for intensity.

You can then use the collar for any known command. Tell Fido "down" and hold the stimulation button until belly is on the ground. Immediately give your marker command and let off the collar.

Make sense?

 

[JT88]

Make sense?

Yes, thank you. Good info. I shouldn't have assumed it was too late for the collar. I will give it a try.

She's a great dog in many ways, I think she just developed some bad habits and they weren't corrected properly. Sort of like giving a horse their way and spoiling them

 

[Akcabin]

When I read this my thoughts are that the dog is asking for more attention and can't control her urge to play. Her way. And she is still focused on you.
As shes a bit older so maybe take her for a walk first to release some energy n learn who's the boss. Enclosed place where she can't run away. Such as a hallway or along a fence line. Maybe invest in a 50' roll of cheapest wire you can find to make a run outside.
Hey shes got the instinct she just can't handle the disapline part. So going back to taking her for a walk. I'm not a dog handler, we have chessys though. And starting back a bit.
I also only use a couple words when talking to our dogs. When I hear folks saying #$#@!%*%"'. at their dogs while training or give atta boys when they do the job their expected to do. I feel it breaks their consecration. They are working. Not playing. A time for both.
Hanging out with her is my best advice. She sounds like a really nice dog n part of your family. Good luck

 

[Cheesehead]

I feel like I’m better learning how to parent a toddler through this thread (minus the shock collar, that is)

 

[bullbugle]

God I wish I could use treats to train my Setters. Their brains are gone the second a treat gets involved.

 

[El Jason]

I feel like I’m better learning how to parent a toddler through this thread (minus the shock collar, that is)

There’s a lot of truth to that.