Too Many Elk

[Deleted member 20812]

So if the herd is 10k animals, a unit like 7 will need about 30% harvest to stay at a static level. In order to decrease the herd, hunters need to harvest at least 3k elk per year. That’s no small task.

 

[kwyeewyk]

Compensation for forage is tricky, seems like could lead to the state essentially paying private land owners to support wildlife. I think there should be an expectation that owning land comes with generally allowing native species access to forage, at least on some level. But I also see the argument that the state manages elk for hunt able populations that can result in disproportionate concentrations in some areas that should be compensated. Not sure where the compromise is.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Compensation for forage is tricky, seems like could lead to the state essentially paying private land owners to support wildlife. I think there should be an expectation that owning land comes with generally allowing native species access to forage, at least on some level. But I also see the argument that the state manages elk for hunt able populations that can result in disproportionate concentrations in some areas that should be compensated. Not sure where the compromise is.

Certainty a fair point. However, if your elk herd is 2-3x objective, that can markedly affect AUM capacity. Particularly if elk are prone to spend more time on certain ranches.

Using simplistic numbers, if a ranch calves and summers 1500 head of elk instead of 500, that’s about 500 fewer cow calf pairs they can support.

 

[kwyeewyk]

Certainty a fair point. However, if your elk herd is 2-3x objective, that can markedly affect AUM capacity. Particularly if elk are prone to spend more time on certain ranches.

Using simplistic numbers, if a ranch calves and summers 1500 head of elk instead of 500, that’s about 500 fewer cow calf pairs they can support.

Yeah exactly, and I think the math side of it is pretty straightforward. Would take some effort to track and calc each year, but what is the threshold for compensation, or what is the reasonable baseline of expectation for landowner contribution of forage? Probably a case by case study, which becomes onerous for the state to implement.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Alright, so what if the Western states with too many elk were to allow resident hunting with a free harvest card like Alaska? I’m thinking that would cause a financial deficit to the States and private and that’s the ugly truth. Never give a goddamn about herd health anymore, but profit.

 

[WoodMoose]

I fully expect to draw a Unit 7 tag this year
not sure if this thread makes me happy or sad

but I'll hunt if I have a tag - have a plan, have the time and am running short on elk meat!

 

[cncterra]

I have seen "non feeding ground " elk mega herds in person in three states. Oregon, Utah and Wyoming.

In Utah every year I hunted a specific ranch, had the land owner tag for that ranch, I coulld not hunt anywhere else, even on the adjacent National Forest.

The last time I hunted there it was unseasonably warm and the elk did not come down. They stayed up high on a sister ranch, same extended family, but required a different land owner tag.

I looked at about 1,200 elk, all bunched together. I could not shoot one there. just about 75 miles to the east was the center of Utah's growing CWD crisis. It is only a matter of time. Mega herds are so vunerable to diseases like CDW and hoof rot too.

Utah's ideal elk population is about 67,000 elk. they have about 81,000. Mule deer are way down. There is only so much feed and there is a huge drought there. The math is the math.

In a narural suituation what breaks up mega herds are large preadtors, wolves especially.

I am new here on the forum. I see you hunted with land owner tag in Utah. Do you know if the ranch owner or any other ranch owner would consider trading for a NM land owner tag? I am looking for other state elk hunting opportunities.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

I am new here on the forum. I see you hunted with land owner tag in Utah. Do you know if the ranch owner or any other ranch owner would consider trading for a NM land owner tag? I am looking for other state elk hunting opportunities.

You’re looking to trade a NM tag as equal to UT? I think UT would get the better half of this deal.

 

[HUNT7503]

You don't know what you're talking about, and your jealousy is duly noted.

Wyoming hunters and even the legislature here have no stomach for transferable LO tags.

You're also wrong about no other options existing. My buddies from ND gained access to a ranch that charges 3K for a cow hunt and well over 10K for bull hunts. They hunted there for free and killed these:

Couple cows for good measure, and 5 elk dead and loaded in the truck by 2 PM.

This all happened by simply cooperating with a landowner, NOT by giving them transferable tags.

Another thing that I've been talking to the Commission about, is offering hunters that draw a cow, or bull permit, and gain access to these harbored herds, the ability to purchase an additional antlerless tag. The difficult part is gaining access to the ranches that harbor elk, once a hunter has that access, often times killing 1-3 elk per hunter is not an issue (see above for proof of that).

For those doubting that there are people that know what they're doing when it comes to killing elk, its just a fact. I've hunted with my ND friends for the last 4 seasons, between the 3 of them, they've held 15 elk tags, and I've helped them fill 14 of them with the one guy simply choosing not to fill his second tag last year (not because he didn't have multiple chances to). After helping these guys the last couple years, they really no longer need my help. They are good shots, they have good equipment and were quick studies in elk hunting. I enjoy hunting with them so will continue to do so, including having some scouting done when they show up.

Like it or not, there's just not many people that know how to kill elk consistently.

We need a program that allows those that know how to get it done to assist the landowners and mentor less experienced hunters. Access to these elk is the key, and like I already said, many landowners simply don't want to fling their gates open to everybody. Many have no problems allowing those they gain trust in to hunt and kill elk, in particular cows.

We're also looking at ways to keep elk on existing HMA properties by modifying a few things that I'm sure would work. We have options available and will continue to build out new ways to get more elk killed.

So, while your post was a nice rant, it holds zero merit and is counter to what we're doing in Wyoming.

I think talking to landowners goes a long way.