Thoughts on the anti-hunting movement

[kmott]

[QUOTE="mtmuley, post: 2882305, member: 14124"
I'm not convinced of that. mtmuley…..... [/QUOTE]
[quote="Might. Key word." mtmuley[/quote]


I know your not.

maybe we need to come at this from another angle...
do you respond with reason to one who is unreasonable with you? I certainly don't and I suspect, if your honest ,you will admit you don't either.

is it therefore reasonable, to expect others to respond well, when we are unreasonable?

 

[kmott]

You don't vote whether to hunt or not. I usually stay out of this stuff. I'm gonna go shovel my sidewalk again, then load ammo for four rifles to kill antelope in a couple weeks. mtmuley

I agree . we have compromised way ,way more then we ever should have.. but that is in the past. the point is , perhaps it wouldn't have been necessary to do so , had we used reason instead of anger. perhaps it won't be necessary to compromise in the future if we use logic over anger.

 

[danwolf]

I've never heard of any anti hunting stuff in Texas yet, though I'm a long ways from big cities. If anything we've gained more gun rights in the past few years.

 

[RockinU]

You don't vote whether to hunt or not. I usually stay out of this stuff. I'm gonna go shovel my sidewalk again, then load ammo for four rifles to kill antelope in a couple weeks. mtmuley

CO lost a bunch of their bear hunt to the vote, CA has lost a lot of things to how they have voted, NM has had several recent votes in their legislature concerning trapping and calling. There are votes concerning hunting all the time, and as undemocratic as this sounds, that scares the hell out of me.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You don't vote whether to hunt or not. I usually stay out of this stuff. I'm gonna go shovel my sidewalk again, then load ammo for four rifles to kill antelope in a couple weeks. mtmuley

Typically not, although trap bans, and specific hunting methods have made it on the ballot in a number of states.

As far in national elections, mostly no... although I might think twice about voting for a Utah republican or a super anti gun Dem.

 

[RockinU]

I've never heard of any anti hunting stuff in Texas yet, though I'm a long ways from big cities. If anything we've gained more gun rights in the past few years.

Man, you better stay away from Travis county if you want to keep it that way. Them people are crazy as hell...

 

[antlerradar]

but why stop there ?????? why not banish all outfitting and $15,000 dollar hunts???????????? I mean ,if I can't afford it why should anyone else get to ,right.

I agree with the slippery slope argument. The current situation with governors tags has a lot in common with Uncle Ted. Sometimes you have to punt rather than defend the indefensible.

 

[danwolf]

Man, you better stay away from Travis county if you want to keep it that way. Them people are crazy as hell...

That's what I was referring to...

 

[kmott]

Because you live in the United States, the social contract that 300 million of us are a part of says that everyone gets a vote about is or is not acceptable practice. I think defend is an overstep, I think it’s important for any group that is a minority of the population, we are less than 10% it’s in our best interest to help others understand our lifestyle, so they can make an informed decision when other minority groups, like PETA, propose legislation. We don’t need everyone to hunt to be ok with the fact that we want to hunt. In today’s pluralistic society I think it’s easier than ever for people to realize that multiple ways of life and exist and should be allowed to.

Where at @88man I think is missing the boat is that PETA (which I will uses as a catch all for all anti hunters) does not represent the beliefs of Democrats, Big D, ie, the party, rather they are a small interest group that in our two party system caucuses with that Democratic Party. If we had a parliamentary system with 6 parties they would probably caucus with the most far left party. To my knowledge the Democrats have never been opposed to hunting, guns are a separate issue and yes the party has opposed certain types of firearm ownership. I’m sorry but we’re you all unable to hunt between 1994 and 2004? Guns<> hunting. Similarly the Republican Party has not gone after hunting although they are anti public lands, it’s literally a plank in the national party platform, but it’s not anti hunting.

The point is most people are moderate, hunters goal should just be to demonstrate that our lifestyle has a place in our society going forward. Both major political parties have positions on issues that negatively impact hunters. This doesn’t not mean that someone who votes for either party is anti hunting. Bucketing people into one of two groups simply because they caucus with one party over another does a disservice to everyone.

Pretty please stop watching Fox, CNN, and MSNBC. Stick with NBC,CBS, NPR, the BBC, the Christian Science Monitor or the AP.

I don't watch any of the above and hate them all pretty equally.

I admit to grouping all democrats together . I know this is not fair . logically I understand not all democrats are anti gun. same way I understand not all democrats are pro abortion and not all repubs are anti abortion or pro guns.

I get that it is more complicated then that . I am not a one issue guy. I understand that there is and never will be, a party or a candidate that I agree with on every topic.

that said , the democrat platform is simply way to far left and alien to all that I hold dear for me to support any one of them.

I do not particularly hate most democrats but I do despise the beliefs of most.

while one can say all democrats are not anti gun or pro abortion ,or pro tax and spend or whatever other policy one wishes to add , the plain simple truth is, those who vote democrat ARE supporting these policies.
because of this , while I can speak with reason and debate them , I simply can not commune or be friends with them.

 

[danwolf]

but why stop there ?????? why not banish all outfitting and $15,000 dollar hunts???????????? I mean ,if I can't afford it why should anyone else get to ,right.

Yeah, $20k for a 200" whitetail these days is a bit steep for me. But then again, there's not much other income on these ranches these days so I think its a win for both involved.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

while I can speak with reason and debate them , I simply can not commune or be friends with them.

The reasons I have a problem with this is that none of this issues you highlighted exist as black and white, they are all on a spectrum. For the most part everyone thinks abortion should be illegal in some instances and illegal in others, same thing with arms, most people believe that bill gates shouldn’t be able to buy a tactical nuke, but where that lower threshold is... we disagree. Same thing with taxes, healthcare. I think the difference between you and most people who typically vote for a democrat is a few inches not a mile. I think as a society we are letting the fringes drive the conversations rather than the middle. AOC and Rush seem equally wacky to most people.

 

[kmott]

no . I assure you , I am miles apart from pretty much all democrats.


I am probably the fringe because I do, think bill gates should be able to buy a nuke if he wants one . if he can't no one (government) should be able to own one either. I believe healthcare should be paid only buy the individual who wants it and can afford it, not buy stealing my money from me to pay for those who want it but won't work to get it.


I do believe if one commits murder they should be put down. regardless of circumstance .

I believe abortion should be illegal in all instances . yep even rape cases. while tragic being a victim should not give anyone the right to commit a crime . could be that child might be the one thing that turns out good in the whole mess. I believe if you don't work and pay taxes you should not be allowed to vote , same goes for those who are not citizens of this nation.

in short I belive everyone should be held liable for their choices

most issues are black and white. it is only humans lack of morals that turn them gray.

 

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[Deleted member 28227]

no . I assure you , I am miles apart from pretty much all democrats.


I am probably the fringe because I do, think bill gates should be able to buy a nuke if he wants one . if he can't no one (government) should be able to own one either. I believe healthcare should be paid only buy the individual who wants it and can afford it, not buy stealing my money from me to pay for those who want it but won't work to get it.


I do believe if one commits murder they should be put down. regardless of circumstance .

I believe abortion should be illegal in all instances . yep even rape cases. while tragic being a victim should not give anyone the right to commit a crime . could be that child might be the one thing that turns out good in the whole mess. I believe if you don't work and pay taxes you should not be allowed to vote , same goes for those who are not citizens of this nation.

in short I belive everyone should be held liable for their choices

most issues are black and white. it is only humans lack of morals that turn them gray.

So should all countries be allowed nukes? What about our enemies, Iran? Should they be allowed to buy them on an open market? What about Hamas? What if Bill Gates decides to move to another country like Iran, can he leave the country with his Nuke? Can Bill use his nuke on public lands? Etc etc, there is no issue that you can’t take to the absurd, eventually if two people are being genuine and not just trying to be dicks, they can agree ok that’s the limit of the spectrum and then walk it back. Where you are on the spectrum, where I am, where Joe moderate is, probably not super far apart. Which is my point.

Also everyone talks a huge game about lots of issues but until it really hits home. Including me.

 

[BrentD]

I'd really like a rocket launcher

Wish I could play a guitar like that too.

 

[kmott]

So should all countries be allowed nukes? What about our enemies, Iran? Should they be allowed to buy them on an open market? What about Hamas? What if Bill Gates decides to move to another country like Iran, can he leave the country with his Nuke? Can Bill use his nuke on public lands? Etc etc, there is no issue that you can’t take to the absurd, eventually if two people are being genuine and not just trying to be dicks, they can agree ok that’s the limit of the spectrum and then walk it back. Where you are on the spectrum, where I am, where Joe moderate is, probably not super far apart. Which is my point.

yes , anything can be taken to the absurd. we can at least agree on that
but I am being genuine and stating upfront , me and ALL democrats are miles apart.

perhaps some not quite as far as others but MILES none the less.


sure we can reason and debate but it is doubtful we will ever agree on much.

 

[tjones]

no . I assure you , I am miles apart from pretty much all democrats.

So you have said you despise D’s.

You have said D’s are pro gun control.

You have said bump stock regs are defined as gun control.

Do you give Trump and the R’s a pass for their bump stock regulations while still despising the D’s?

 

[kmott]

no. and I don't give Reagan a pass for amnesty in the 80s either either …… or for that matter , literally hundreds of repub blunders.

I think I despise most pretty equally, though I believe I said , I hate what dems stand for , not that I hate them.

my point was simply ,I have commonalities with one party, but none with the other. zero. zip, zilch!

biggest difference I see between most repubs and most democrats is.. most repubs (not all)are all for accountability and paying their way and most democrats (not all ) are for excuses and handouts..

but we digress from the OPs thread.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

biggest difference I see between most repubs and most democrats is.. most repubs (not all)are all for accountability and paying their way and most democrats (not all ) are for excuses and handouts..

Lolz

There’s like 4 adults in the federal gov we are at an historic low for fiscal/moral/ethical accountability right now.

 

[RockinU]

no. and I don't give Reagan a pass for amnesty in the 80s either either …… or for that matter , literally hundreds of repub blunders.

I think I despise most pretty equally, though I believe I said , I hate what dems stand for , not that I hate them.

my point was simply ,I have commonalities with one party, but none with the other. zero. zip, zilch!

biggest difference I see between most repubs and most democrats is.. most repubs (not all)are all for accountability and paying their way and most democrats (not all ) are for excuses and handouts..

but we digress from the OPs thread.

I don't mind (nor do I think most) a digression involving the broader social issues involved in the topic...it's not like it's moved into the best offroad tire, or bear pistol.

I think it is good that you hold all accountable for their positions that are in opposition to your beliefs, but along those same lines, I think it's good to also recognize when people you typically disagree with do something that is in line with your ideals, which is why I try to take a broader look at politics. When people who I disagree with on guns do something positive for public lands as an example, I think I need to recognize that. Making headway in life is often about recognizing nuance.

I have commonalities with everyone. I love my family, and want to see them grow and prosper, I want to be left alone to the pursuits that make me happy, etc ad infinitum, and I feel most people who disagree with me politically probably want the same things in their own way. We are all just imperfect people struggling to find our way, and I think that as soon as a person is able to recognize that not all opposing positions stem from malice, but maybe just from different life experience, then finding common ground on which to build consensus will be easier...not for all, but for those who want it.