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The Mississippi Poison Arrow Conundrum

Sytes

Sytes

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I recently learned from a co-worker, originally from Mississippi, their archery hunt entailed poison tipped arrows encased in pods. Poor shot wounded game... nil.

I've hunted as long as I was legal, to include kid incorporated - slingshot heaven, and never knew such was legal aside from some Nat Geo show on Amazon tribal use from some poison frog...

Apparently, there is absolutely no adverse repercussions to human ingestion of game. However, I sure would not want an oops moment to occur on myself, a young one, or anyone for that matter... I take it, it does not discern humans from animals(?).

Would it create poor shots? I suppose the response is, least in Mississippi - a poor shot (aside from missed) does not exist. Death is faster and more humane than non poison archery tips.

I'm opening this up as neutral as possible though my personal opinion was noted regarding the potential. "oops" portion.

If this did not effect humans... more humane and quick death - is the sporting side of the "challenge" gone? Odd flip on the thought.
 
OntarioHunter said:
Where is this legal in Canada?
Click to expand...
Apologies. I must have misunderstood his reference of poison arrows and Canada, as I can not find any Provincial regs that currently permit. I've edited the title - removed Canada.

Other note, while trying to find the Canadian reference, it's interesting, one of our greatest archery public figures, Fred Bear was a proponent of poison tipped arrows.
 
Sytes said:
Apologies. I must have misunderstood his reference of poison arrows and Canada, as I can not find any Provincial regs that currently permit. I've edited the title - removed Canada.

Other note, while trying to find the Canadian reference, it's interesting, one of our greatest archery public figures, Fred Bear was a proponent of poison tipped arrows.
Click to expand...
I suspect the inference may have been Canadian First Nation's people (Indians) can use poison arrows. They legally can and do hunt any way they want, anywhere they want (as long as it's public land), any time of the day or year, and shoot as much game as they want. I routinely see them shooting waterfowl with lead shot on the farms where I hunt. I would be curious to know if any of them actually do use poison arrows. I have yet to see a FN hunter using archery. Kinda ironic.

If it's possible to tip a broahead with poison, couldn't bullets be tipped with it too?
 
This is kinda legal in MS. It's not prohibited at a state level. The poison (anectine) is a federally regulated substance. Like medical marijuana, it doesn't get cracked down on by federal enforcement and it's legal on the state side. Use of "pods" (a balloon that fits over the arrow shaft, behind the broadhead, used to hold the powered anectine) has tapered off over the past few years from what I have seen. I have recovered a few deer for people that otherwise wouldn't have died without a pod. This doesn't mean they intentionally took a bad shot though.

You just don't see people taking pot shots because they're shooting pods. You still have to be able to locate the deer once you shoot it, so a bad shot that doesn't leave a trail still leads to an unrecovered deer in a lot of cases. Over the past few years the use of tracking dogs in Mississippi has exploded. Even with that fact, the percentage of tracks run during archery season that the hunter used a pod is very low. I can think of 1 archery deer I have tracked for others over the past 4 years that used poison. That's one out of probably 40 tracks. I have shot a handful myself. Another note, it doesn't compensate for gut shots in most cases. You need to get the anectine into the bloodstream which is more easily accomplished when passing through dense muscle or the heart.

I have, in the past, shot pods. I hunted on a golf course and didn't want the deer to die in someone's pool or on a tee box. It shuts the deer down quicker and lessens impact on the public in an urban hunting situation. There is no adverse affects on human consumption. I've eaten the heart from ever deer that I shot with a pod. I don't shoot them now since I no longer hunt that area. If I were in that situation again though I'd probably go back to shooting them.
 
jwatts said:
This is kinda legal in MS. It's not prohibited at a state level. The poison (anectine) is a federally regulated substance. Like medical marijuana, it doesn't get cracked down on by federal enforcement and it's legal on the state side. Use of "pods" (a balloon that fits over the arrow shaft, behind the broadhead, used to hold the powered anectine) has tapered off over the past few years from what I have seen. I have recovered a few deer for people that otherwise wouldn't have died without a pod. This doesn't mean they intentionally took a bad shot though.

You just don't see people taking pot shots because they're shooting pods. You still have to be able to locate the deer once you shoot it, so a bad shot that doesn't leave a trail still leads to an unrecovered deer in a lot of cases. Over the past few years the use of tracking dogs in Mississippi has exploded. Even with that fact, the percentage of tracks run during archery season that the hunter used a pod is very low. I can think of 1 archery deer I have tracked for others over the past 4 years that used poison. That's one out of probably 40 tracks. I have shot a handful myself. Another note, it doesn't compensate for gut shots in most cases. You need to get the anectine into the bloodstream which is more easily accomplished when passing through dense muscle or the heart.

I have, in the past, shot pods. I hunted on a golf course and didn't want the deer to die in someone's pool or on a tee box. It shuts the deer down quicker and lessens impact on the public in an urban hunting situation. There is no adverse affects on human consumption. I've eaten the heart from ever deer that I shot with a pod. I don't shoot them now since I no longer hunt that area. If I were in that situation again though I'd probably go back to shooting them.
Click to expand...
Interesting. You cleared up a lot of ambiguity. Thanks.
 
jwatts said:
This is kinda legal in MS. It's not prohibited at a state level. The poison (anectine) is a federally regulated substance. Like medical marijuana, it doesn't get cracked down on by federal enforcement and it's legal on the state side. Use of "pods" (a balloon that fits over the arrow shaft, behind the broadhead, used to hold the powered anectine) has tapered off over the past few years from what I have seen. I have recovered a few deer for people that otherwise wouldn't have died without a pod. This doesn't mean they intentionally took a bad shot though.

You just don't see people taking pot shots because they're shooting pods. You still have to be able to locate the deer once you shoot it, so a bad shot that doesn't leave a trail still leads to an unrecovered deer in a lot of cases. Over the past few years the use of tracking dogs in Mississippi has exploded. Even with that fact, the percentage of tracks run during archery season that the hunter used a pod is very low. I can think of 1 archery deer I have tracked for others over the past 4 years that used poison. That's one out of probably 40 tracks. I have shot a handful myself. Another note, it doesn't compensate for gut shots in most cases. You need to get the anectine into the bloodstream which is more easily accomplished when passing through dense muscle or the heart.

I have, in the past, shot pods. I hunted on a golf course and didn't want the deer to die in someone's pool or on a tee box. It shuts the deer down quicker and lessens impact on the public in an urban hunting situation. There is no adverse affects on human consumption. I've eaten the heart from ever deer that I shot with a pod. I don't shoot them now since I no longer hunt that area. If I were in that situation again though I'd probably go back to shooting them.
Click to expand...
Jwatts is spot on here. When I was growing up in MS, a lot of people used pods. Over the years that number has gone way down. I personally don’t know anyone who is still using them.
 
@jwatts I take it, it's secure enough w/in the pod to minimize concern?

It was interesting to read of Fred Bear's take on poison pods as such a quality representative within the archery and conservation world. Maybe some haters now with this knowledge though he shared with Pope and Young and the company his disappointment with the stigma of a method that is a valuable tool to reduce wounded wildlife and how, basically peeved he was for the pressure due to naive understanding of it's use.

Makes me wonder, why not? Is the challenge to be so elitist as to force such a shot on all with disregard to the animal's welfare - for the human sport of it?
I'm not a fan of the idea based on potential effect of accidental release on a human... though maybe that's another naive misconception as I couldn't find a single death due to the use of pods for hunting.

He shared this was their bread and butter during college days (15-20 years ago?). Never lost a single deer - so he claimed and he's not one to bs. They'd purchase from a guy who made the drug and called it the 7 step test. He'd thwack a goat with it and if it exceeded 7 steps, he'd toss the batch.
The back then... yammerings of college day freezer filler to feed through their education.

Now, apparently, cross into Alabama where a person can legally buy the prescription OTC and back to MS. Wonder if that's legal as it's interstate commerce at that point(?).

Anyhow, as mentioned, never knew such existed. Thanks for sharing some great insight.
 
Sytes said:
@jwatts I take it, it's secure enough w/in the pod to minimize concern?

It was interesting to read of Fred Bear's take on poison pods as such a quality representative within the archery and conservation world. Maybe some haters now with this knowledge though he shared with Pope and Young and the company his disappointment with the stigma of a method that is a valuable tool to reduce wounded wildlife and how, basically peeved he was for the pressure due to naive understanding of it's use.

Makes me wonder, why not? Is the challenge to be so elitist as to force such a shot on all with disregard to the animal's welfare - for the human sport of it?
I'm not a fan of the idea based on potential effect of accidental release on a human... though maybe that's another naive misconception as I couldn't find a single death due to the use of pods for hunting.

He shared this was their bread and butter during college days (15-20 years ago?). Never lost a single deer - so he claimed and he's not one to bs. They'd purchase from a guy who made the drug and called it the 7 step test. He'd thwack a goat with it and if it exceeded 7 steps, he'd toss the batch.
The back then... yammerings of college day freezer filler to feed through their education.

Now, apparently, cross into Alabama where a person can legally buy the prescription OTC and back to MS. Wonder if that's legal as it's interstate commerce at that point(?).

Anyhow, as mentioned, never knew such existed. Thanks for sharing some great insight.
Click to expand...

I'll try to find a picture of the setup. Basically there's an acrylic cylinder that slides over the arrow shaft, behind the broadhead. It's concaved as to create a cavity. The anectine powder goes into that, then a balloon rolls over it to keep it all in. When your arrow passes through the balloon rolls back, and the power releases into the animal. I have seen some really old school setups that used small hypodermic needles in the place of a broadhead. I can't see that being very effective, especially if you ever want to find the deer.

The drug used is also used by veterinarians. It's is used as a sedative and takes very little to completely shut down the circulatory system of ungulates. In theory, you could make a bad shot with a pod, perform CPR, and have the deer come back to life after the anectine metabolizes completely. The dose required to cause harm to a human is ridiculous. You could dang near snort it and see no ill effects. I was still cautious when loading pods though.
 
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I remember the old poison pods, and I do not recall a single person who thought there were a good thing - though obviously there were such people. I believe they were more common or used longer in Missouri.

I recall speculating how many accidental deaths might occur from them, but never heard of anyone falling out of their tree stand with a poison arrow and offing himself.

I think it would be sad to see them come back. But then I don't think much of pulleys and gunstock mounted bows either as "archery". Just me I guess.
 
As a practicing anesthesiologist, we use Anectine (more commonly called Succinylcholine) quite regularly in the OR and ER. This thread is rife with misinformation about the drug itself. It has zero sedative effects so yes, the animal is awake while paralyzed. It is purely a neuromuscular blocker and has no effect on cardiac muscle (wouldnt be too useful to stop a patient’s heart every time we have to go to sleep during surgery!!). It does need to directly enter the blood stream to work, usually via an IV but occasionally intramuscular as well which is what the pod would more or less be. It’s duration of action is quite brief (wears off in about 10 minutes). The powder form in these pods is likely more concentrated than what we have in the hospital where it takes about 5-10cc (100-200mg) for most people.

For the TLDR crowd, I wouldn’t totally trust the pod to work and find it distasteful and unethical even if it did.
 
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