The big cats and Predator calling

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bcat

Guest
I see some intrest in calling big cats, and I just wanted to chime in a little on the subject. You can take it or leave it as far as my opinon goes, but I got to say it, you know me!!!! Some areas yes are over run with lions. California for example has its share. No one thinks about shooting every coyote they see, including me, coyotes will be here with the ravens when there is nothing else left on earth. Lions and the cat family are a different subject. Some places may be overrun with bobcats too, not here where I am from. I am totally against shooting Lions after calling them in to a predator call. If you can get them to come in, and that is a big feat in itself, you dont know what you are killing. I dont know how many of you have wittnessed starving kittens, but I have. At least 50 to 75 percent of female lions have kittens somewhere, from age 1 day to 16 months old. If you are lucky enuff to call a lion in, more times than not it will be a female, and you shoot. Nobody has the time to set and watch it to determine the sex. Just isnt time when calling. SO what happens is 80 percent of the lions called in or better are females and usually they have kittens somewhere so you have killed anywhere from three to five lions with one shot!!!! Arent we a little more responsible than that. Kittens dont survive on their own until they are 14 to 18 months of age. Its a tough world out there for these kittens that have been orphaned. Many of lions that are seen in housing developments in the west are orphaned kittens of this age group looking for easy food. I am not trying to put down anybodys way of hunting lions, although in my opinion it is a terrible way to harvest a lion if you have any conscience at all. I am not a cat hater I am a cat hunter, and with dogs you can be selective and save the kittens till they grow up big enuff to hunt. Entire lion populations can be wiped out using this method, or random shooting on site killing of lions. Coyotes and wolves of the dog family are a different story, but if you have a conscience, get ya a dog or two, or get someone who has dogs to take ya. Harvesting tom lions helps the lion population, the harvesting of females can crush a lion population and fast!!!! Some may have never thought of this and some just dont care, but I have developed a keen respect for the creature over the years, and I have seen how populations have been devasted by people that just dont care!!!!! JMHO bcat

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If you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes
 
D

Delw

Guest
Bcat:
I read this then read it again . even though I love to TRY to call in lions and would love to shoot one YOUR RIGHT!.Now I see that the one or 2 lions I will get a shot on I will be second guessing myself to see if its a tom.
for about 20 years I would never think of hunting a lion or bear with dogs. I thought it was to easy and you were guarenteed a 50% sucess rate.then I met you on a forum about a year ago and youve changed my out look. What I mean is what you say most of the time makes alot of sence. Not only did you make sence to me but hunting with dogs you can be more selective(not in size). So I do agree with ya. But i will always try to call one in just cause I love calling. And All I want is one.I want a male but now i'm going to be more careful so I can determan what sex it really is.when i get one I will continue to try to call them but will let them go. the same with bobcats i just one 1.

Keep putting your 2cents worth in ,it makes most of us think a little harder

Delw
 
B

bcat

Guest
Delw-There is no way without having one in a tree looking at its organs to tell whether its a male or a female!!!!! Even real good lion hunters have trouble telling just by looking at their face. You can tell usually if you look long enuff if its a tom by the masculinity of the head, but its easy to tell when ya see the two litle dark spots under the tail where his balls are or ARE NOT whichever the case may be. Very seldom do we ever turn loose on a cat that I know is a female by looking at the track. Toms have a very distinctive track when they get mature, females have a much smaller track with narrower toes. We have been wrong a time or two on big females, and smaller toms. There is just no way of knowing when ya call one in, because of the time element, and the exitement level. Chances are most will never get one called in, but I would bet good money that over 75 percent of the ones you guys are fortunate enuff to call in will be females when ya put a bullet in em. Theres just no way around it!!!! I dont care how people choose to hunt, I like calling myself. But when it comes to killing a lion , the best way to tell is with dogs. I have killed females myself and never thought much about it till I saw several sets of starving kittens from females othwr hunters had shot. Then I got to thinking, maybe I had starved some kittens out with one or more of the females I have killed over the years. So we quit hunting females or even screwing with them!!!!!! I saw a guy once that found a female and kittens (four kittens) and a deer kill. They treed those kittens and the old female every day a couple times a day for a week, until the female abandoned the kittens. They thought it would be kool to train their puppies on an easy bunch of lions!!! it was kool alright but all the kittens died. SO I guess it wasnt so kool. Same goes for killing the old female!!! The kittens will die PERIOD!!!!! I was as guilty as anyone till I saw the light and I just have a deep respect for the things and the life they lead. As long as a guy can live with himself, no matter what the outcome, it doesnt matter. Just dont be surprized if the first one ya call in and kill is a female!! Or a young cat that isnt doing well and is hungry!!!! Good luck to all in thier plight to call one in! bcat

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If you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes
 

Muledeer4me

New member
Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Messages
1,597
Location
Idaho
Bcat, that really makes alot of sense.That is what I love about this site,we get so many different view's on hunting.That was one I never gave much thought to,I kinda thought of them more like coyote's,I now have a different view to go on,not that I have seen many but we do call dog's and you never now what will come in.

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Debbie
 
C

concerned hunter

Guest
I would like to just see a lion. We do not have them in Kansas anyway where I live. There have been a lot of unconfirmed reports but no evidence. We certainly have the deer to support them but not the terrain. From what I am told they prefer the most rugged terrain possible. Would give anything to have a lion to add to my collection!
 

Sportfury

New member
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Messages
7
Location
Graham, WA, USA
bcat! I was just wondering if you call a lion in on the ground is there a way that you can make out the sex of the animal? Here in WA we can't hunt bear and cougar with dogs anymore, so we either have to come up on them by suprise or call them in (if that doesn't get banned to.) Just wondering.
Later Sportfury
 

AzWill

New member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Messages
10
Location
Arizona
Boy, this is a subject dear to my heart. . . calling cats.

A caller wanting to call in a lion best be ready to invest in tons of scouting. The odds of cold calling the big cat is much like winning the lottery; don’t hold your breath.

A person scouting for lions can determine the sex of the animal by looking at the tracks of adult lions plus toms will leave “scratch post” to mark the boundaries of their territory where females do not.

Adult toms will not tolerate other lions on its' turf, except for females in season and that is for a relatively short period. Other than mating, the King cat will drive away or kill lesser lions he finds in his domain.

The big secret to calling the big cats is hard work that involves tons of scouting to determine the sex of the lion and its’ movement patterns within a very large area.

Bcat is right when he states that hunting lions with dogs allows the hunter to be more selective in deciding which cat is harvested. However, it is possible for a caller to learn to judge the sex of a lion by learning to read tracks and other lion sign correctly.

The problem is, the needed information a caller needs is generally considered as a "trade secret" by those that are in the know, and secondly it takes time for the caller to learn how to correctly comprehend the lion sign.

But make no mistake about it, it is a doable thing if a caller is totally dedicated to the task at hand and willing to devote a huge amount of time.

Calling in the first one is the hardest part and then your hooked for life...


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http://www.geocities.com/wcraig/
 

Doug

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2001
Messages
625
Location
Northern Colorado
Here's a blast from the past including some advice from Will Craig who is much missed in the predator calling comunity. Is there anyone that calls lions regularly?
Doug
 

Danny Batastini

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
147
Location
Southern California High Desert
Doug, I almost fill out of my chair when I saw AzWill's post. He was a friend and a one of a kind man, that's for sure. Doug, I have called lions but I don't do it regularly lol. I have seen 8 lions that I know were lions and maybe twice that many at night that I could not identify for sure. " I love telling stories. " I took a friend from Fla ( Jerry ). calling with me years ago, I didn't know to much at the time didn't even bring a gun. I told Jerry to sit about 20 yards away and watch me do my thing. After the stand was all over he told me a big cat was right behind me as I was calling, he said it just sat there and watched me then walked away. After that I always took a gun lol.
 
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