The battle begins!

[danr55]

"The administration urges the Senate to pass a clean bill, in order to ensure enactment of the legislation this year," the White House said in a statement. "Any amendment that would delay enactment of the bill beyond this year is unacceptable."

I think that pretty well explains it. The Whitehouse wants the bill passed clean. That excludes any amendments. I wouldn't bet against the earlier statement being either political mumbo-jumbo or a purposeful misquote.

..and guys, I think you have missed the point on the gun show "LOOPHOLE" everyone is talking about. What is implied is that ANY sale of ANY weapon at a gunshow, be it from a licensed dealer or an individual, would be subject to a background check and would further hold the shows promoter responsible for any failure to comply. That would put the liability on the promoter and would virtually shut down gunshows. That's the "LOOPHOLE" that has me up in arms about it.

 

[dgibson]

Why does DiFi keep getting elected? You'd have to ask her constituents that to be sure, but I would venture to say that California has an inordinate amount of liberals. There are pro-gun people there just like there are anywhere else; unfortunately, they seem to be greatly outnumbered. California Hunter will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even the NRA has given CA up as a pretty much lost cause...they don't spend nearly as much time campaigning there as in other "swing states." They save their money for where they think they have a chance.

 

[MarlandS]

Gunner, in addition to what DG said , I guess the second question you posed...

The Patriot Act scares the begeebers out of me.. even if this administration doesn't misuse it , which I don't think they have yet, it sure opens the door for any administration of any party to really get into our lives.

But then again I can't remember if it sunsets.

 

[JoseCuervo]

MarS,

If you look at my Signature, I reference a fictional character who dreamed of blowing up dams. Dubya/Ashcroft feel they need access to the librarian to find out every time the Gunner checks out another Abbey book.

I would far prefer to give a list of my guns with serial numbers, then to have somebody from Ashcroft's office going through my library file, or snooping in my e-mail. (Unless of course they need to re-finance at historically low rates, obtain prescripitons from Canada, or work from home stuffing envelopes.)

MarS,
How would you vote, hypothetically, if you had Kerry/Edwards come out for repeal of the Patriot Act vs. Bush pro-Gun?

Would this be an important enough issue, or would you vote with your Wallet?

D-Gib,
What about you? Would you vote Pro-Gun Bush, or would you vote Kerry/Edwards, assuming you felt they would help your local economic situation?

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Feinstein keeps getting elected because there are a lot of liberals in California, the unions keep backing her (both with endorsements and cash) and she does keep California in the forefront of the crowd at the government trough.


I am convinced that the NRA has, in fact, given up on trying to defeat her. Despite the fact that California has more NRA members than any other state, and thus probably contributes more $$$ to the NRA, they have decided to use the money more wisely on races they can win. Rather that spend millions on one campaign attempting to defeat Feinstein, they can spread that money around and try to keep a majority of pro-gun people elected.

I give much more money now to local and state groups, like the California Rifle and Pistol Association and Gun Owners of California.

And yes, I support pro-gun and pro-hunting candidates over everything else. (Generally, those candidates also agree with me on other issues, as well.) People can say that the 2nd Amendment is perfectly safe, being part of the Constitution, but the Justice Department under Clinton was in Federal court, saying that the 2nd Amendment did NOT guaranteee the individual's right to keep and bear arms, and this was the "official position" of the Justice Department. (How soon people forget.)

 

[Tom]

We need some kind of improved Patriot Act eventually. The terrorists are here, we need to find them, find the weapons they bring here and get them, the terrorists and their weapons. The challenge is to protect our values in the US and to get the terrorist weapons they are bringing into the US.

 

[dgibson]

Here's an interesting debate between an attorney for the Brady Bunch and John Lott, well known pro-gun author and statistician. click here

 

[Tom]

That's a good link, that debate. John Lowry of the Brady group does missrepresent the bill, if you read it.

It was a bad day though in those votes.

Anti-guns 3, pro-guns 0.

The anti guns got the two bad ammendments added to the good bill stopping the lousy law suits that put Colt out of business. But, that got S1805 killed. Back to zero, I think. We vote Nov. though.

http://www.nraila.org/CurrentLegislation/Read.aspx?ID=997 has how our senators voted on these issues.

[ 03-02-2004, 18:27: Message edited by: Tom ]

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Calif. Hunter:
Feinstein keeps getting elected because there are a lot of liberals in California, the unions keep backing her (both with endorsements and cash) and she does keep California in the forefront of the crowd at the government trough.

Then how come all the Liberals in California keep electing Republicans????? Pete Wilson, Schwarzengger, etc.. etc...

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Pete Wilson has been out of office for quite a few years, and Arnold is part of what I was reciting as a possible change in California's political climate that I hope continues.

EG - you have a thing for turning every point or single occurence into an absolute. As I have said before, that invalidates your statements. The banana is yellow, therefore that yellow Ford Escort is a banana. Using terms like "every," "always" (as in your signature lines), "all," etc. attempt to create absolutes where none exist and basically, invalidate your arguments. When you cite facts or surveys, you are more effective.

"Then how come all the Liberals in California keep electing Republicans????? Pete Wilson, Schwarzengger, etc.. etc..."

Two examples over a decade or so do not equate to "keep electing." And the fact that they were elected hardly means that "all the Liberals in California keep electing Republicans." That statement is simply nonsense and contradictory on its face.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Cali,

I should have put quotes or italics on the word "all" in the "all the liberals" line. Sorry for the omission of the "toungue in cheek".

My understanding of Calif politics is that it is fairly evenly split, with republicans in Orange County and south toward San Diego. Democrats control SF County, Alameda, and Marin counties.
Republicans control the South Bay and Peninusla. The Central Valley and other areas are the swing areas.

I have never understood California's persistance at electing Feinstein/Boxer/Pelosi etc.. once they left the Bay Area electorate. For some reason there was appeal beyond the Democratic strongholds.

And to be accurate, I have to retain the word "Always" in my signature, or I would be mis-quoting Mr. Hayduke. And if you haven't ever heard of Mr. GW Hayduke, you are missing a bit of the irony.

But thanks for the chastizing, and I will seek to be more fair and balanced in my sarcasm and "pot stirring".....