Technology Creep

[pabearhunter]

If more people don,t join the NRA and or GOA and they keep voting for people like barack HUSSEIN obama you won,t have any guns to hunt with or ammo to shoot !!!!!!!!!!

 

[jryoung]

Please list in detail the gun laws the President has been able to pass.

 

[tjones]

Please list in detail the gun laws the President has been able to pass.

This, plus there has been plenty non gun related legislation here in Montana the NRA had no business sticking their nose in.

 

[pabearhunter]

And why do you think the laws did not get passed.

 

[tjones]

And why do you think the laws did not get passed.

Wiff!

 

[jryoung]

Because just like Federal Land transfer issues the people have stood up and said that's a stupid idea and we have an amendment to protect us.

However, with the Federal Land transfer issue we have no amendment, and if it we to happen it would kill hunting faster any threat to take your guns away.

 

[smarandr]

It's disappointing to see so many think a FS gate is a no trespassing sign though.

A couple of years ago I stopped and talked to a guy that was coming down the road that I was headed up. Towards the top there was a side road that the FS closed earlier in the summer, and you would have thought someone had take away this guys birthday the way he was crying. But the real funny thing is the closure has actually made hunting easier in my opinion, as the road closure has brought the elk that much lower.

 

[smarandr]

If more people don,t join the NRA and or GOA and they keep voting for people like barack HUSSEIN obama you won,t have any guns to hunt with or ammo to shoot !!!!!!!!!!

I used to share this same outlook (except for childish emphasis on the President's middle name). Fortunately I've been hanging out here quite a bit and have broadened my view to the real challenges we face.

 

[BuzzH]

LOL. Another ridiculous solution that shows your true colors. So technology for center fire rifles, turrets, rangefinders, low BC bullets, etc. are OK but it's not OK to use technology for muzzle loaders or archery. Makes no sense.

You really seem to struggle with putting yourself in someone else shoes or looking at things form a perspective than your own. Because you use all sorts of modern technology for center fire rifles you have no problem with it but you want to prevent other hunters who use different weapons from doing the same.thing and you use ridiculous claims to try and make your point.

A good example is crossbows. You and your buddies claim that they will lead to increased harvest and shortened seasons. I have not noticed any of that in the states I hunt. In fact Nebraska actually lengthened archery season after allowing crossbows.

Wow, you claiming that I don't put myself in the shoes of others. That's really something. How about YOU start considering the history of ML and Archery seasons and the people that pioneered and passed these seasons in the various States. Like I've already said, the seasons were introduced to the States as PRIMTIVE seasons, with low success, and very limited technology.

I have many friends in Montana that were on the ground floor of archery in MT. They got the archery seasons established by presenting their case that archery hunters were extremely limited by the equipment of the time. Low success rates, low archery hunting participation, and minimal impacts to the wildlife meant the department was willing to give a 6 week archery season.

The price that has been paid for increases in technology, archery participation, and higher success rates is things like LQ archery elk tags in many areas in Montana. I would expect more to come.

You're lack of consideration for the guys that established the seasons, has resulted in a drastic change for them. They face more competition in the field, less opportunity via LQ archery elk tags, etc. etc.

A friend of mine, that posts on this board, who only hunts with traditional archery gear, told me flat out at the recent BHA rendezvous, that, "its nearly impossible for me to defend a 6 week Montana archery season due to technology"...and he's 100% spot on.

Replace muzzleloader with archery and its the exact same thing.

You can continue to believe that technology isn't going to change archery and ML seasons all you want, its already happening.

Finally, calling my bow in this picture a "primitive" weapon is just a bit beyond a stretch.

When I can pick up my "two sticks and a string" a week before the season and zip a pronghorn at 54 yards no problem, I think technology has out-paced the original intent of an archery season.

This issue is going to boil down to either accepting shorter seasons and less opportunity or applying the brakes to technology. Just the way its going to play out.

 

[shoots-straight]

]At the same time, the technology has helped the general population make better shots and cleaner kills. I'd rather have a reduction in tag numbers than have a bunch of guys who are used to centerfires with scopes go out with an open-sight or muzzleloader and try shooting an animal at their usual range, just to injure it and never recover the animal.[/SIZE]

There are probably some things we could do to make it more challenging. Banning cameras, as suggested, could be one of them. Maybe no spotting scopes allowed, and limit the magnification power on scopes and binoculars (probably help more in open western areas than others) (not banning binoculars because then you'll get the people who just use their rifle scope as a spotting scope and that is unsafe at best). Reducing road access during hunting season could be another. Generally I am in support of methods to make it more difficult to find game, but once you find it and are close, I fully support the technological advancements to make a clean kill.

Its all relative. Those same people that made the bad shots are doing so at longer ranges. It's not making them stop. Although I have no evidence to back it up, I'd bet that more game is wounded today, at longer ranges than previously. People see the TV personalities killing game at 1200 yards with rifles, and 100 yrds with archery equipment, and so they feel they can do the same. I personally know several fellas that bought .300 mags, went to the range on a calm day and hit the 10 inch ring. They both went elk hunting opening day and ranged a herd of elk at 1000 yards, only to hit 2 bulls in the rear area because they were walking.

I'd rather have longer seasons with limited equipment myself. Keep your shots inside your ability no matter what your using.

Today sportsman have lost woodsmanship skills and replaced them with technology.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

What SS said!!!

 

[WyOpitz]

I also agree with SS. However, I feel that society is beyond hope as there are less and less "hunters" (if we must call them that) that have the ethics or etiquette that used to be second nature for all outdoorsmen. Every year I hunt whether it's rifle or bow, I run into the hunter who is only concerned with himself. I know it's public land but jeez, I would never in a million years do some of the stuff these guys do. I just turn the other direction and let them have it, I figure karma will get them in the long run.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Today sportsman have lost woodsmanship skills and replaced them with technology.

Bingo! And also because it requires less time in the woods and less patience in hunting.

 

[OriginalOscar]

Another option is a short season, use whatever technology you want.

I have the biggest problem with advances in archery and ML's as the intent of those seasons was not one to help control wildlife populations. They got special seasons on the argument that the impacts they had to the total population were small and success rates were low due to primitive weapons.

That's not the case anymore, so I say, if no limits are put on technology in a primitive season, then one season with the same dates, choose your weapon.

And even worse idiots who take 200+ yard shots with muzzleloaders and 75 yard bow shots.

 

[tjones]

Minute of a milk jug at 500+ is all it takes.

 

[cowboy]

I feel that society is beyond hope as there are less and less "hunters" (if we must call them that) that have the ethics or etiquette that used to be second nature for all outdoorsmen.

I'm probably one of the older hunters here so I've seen a lot more than a lot of the younger generation. For the most part there are a greater number of better hunters in the generation below me today than there was when I was their age. They have better knowledge, equipment, and much more disposable income to dedicate to better themselves. Plus they are in better physical shape, know the ins and outs of scouting etc., etc. and it all shows with the quality of animals posted right here on this forum.

There are always going to be azz hats out there - but I sure as hell wish I was 30 again and knew what I know now.

If you think it's bad now you should have seen it in the 50's and 60's when there was a lot less game and the equipment was 25% quality of what we have today.

 

[bobbydean]

Cowboy.

Ditto!

Well said.

 

[WyOpitz]

Maybe we need a primitive clothing season? No kuiu or Sitka, just denim and a red/black flannel shirt. Haha! This would weed out a lot of folks.

 

[ida homer]

I think Idaho has this one right. We are pretty conservative with technology and season dates. Besides Montana, we have the most OTC opportunity. In my neck of the woods I have seen better deer and elk numbers the last couple of seasons. Obviously there are many other factors, but I feel that we are preserving our current model by regulating the one thing we can control pretty well.

A majority of the states general buck tag is good for oct 10th-24th or 31st. I don't think there are any units that go later than that and into the rut, besides a handful of the unlimited units. This is part of why I feel that we are shooting some of the best OTC bucks.

An Otc rut hunt with a rifle would be cool, but that just simply can't last forever. You are looking for a needle in a haystack in most units when after a good buck. They are there, but they are solitary and nocturnal at that time, but at least you have a tag. The guys that work for it get it here.

We also have to choose our weapon for elk, you either get 4 weeks with a bow or 1-3 weeks with a rifle, as a general rule of thumb. No lighted knocks or scopes on ML's. Would a go pro or a lighted knock kill someone to have? No, but it's a slippery slope and a line needs drawn somewhere. So KISS, and no electronics on your weapon.

I would urge Montana to follow suit now, before they have to. We are all just getting too good with our weapons of choice.

 

[bigskyblueman]

In fairness , President Obama did sign the conceal carry bill in National Parks, which the supposedly pro-gun George Bush refused to sign or support.