Taking my life back

[Bonasababy]

I know you didn’t mean it in a dangerous way, but this is referred to as doctor shopping. Beware.

Often times, the greatest service a physician can offer is to protect a patient from their desires- especially with things like this.

There is a ton of bro science and self-diagnosis going on in the Ozempic/TRT space- I have a sinking feeling it will not end well for a large amount of people.

Doctor shopping in the sense of finding one that talks and works with you in the way you want to be worked with, yes. Shopping to find someone that always agrees with you or your own diagnosis is a different thing entirely.

GLP-1 drugs--the narrative on those is different from what I see--literally a life saver and life changing for many...but so many bash and promote false views on them.

 

[cgasner1]

I know you didn’t mean it in a dangerous way, but this is referred to as doctor shopping. Beware.

Often times, the greatest service a physician can offer is to protect a patient from their desires- especially with things like this.

There is a ton of bro science and self-diagnosis going on in the Ozempic/TRT space- I have a sinking feeling it will not end well for a large amount of people.

I’d agree with part of this but also people have been getting second opinions for a very long time on everything else.

 

[Tradewind]

I only read the first 2 posts, then a couple late in the thread. So forgive me.
After taking care of a relative and running to almost every medical office in the area, Repeatedly,
on a monthly basis, it became very apparent that the right doctor is vital. The rest either don't listen, have a bias
or are just pill pushers.
I would find a new Dr.

 

[Nameless Range]

I’m going to say it again because TRT shuts down your body making testosterone. Go to a compounding pharmacy and ask them about enclomiphene. This increases your testosterone and your body makes it. I don’t see a reason for most people to not go that route.

Enclomiphene can really jack up estradiol for a lot of folks who try it, and even if it raises T, for some people it skews their E to T ratio in a bad way.

The idea that if you get on exogenous testosterone you are on it for life is mostly a false one. Things like supplemental enclomiphene or HCG will mimic luteinizing hormone and keep your nuts producing a certain level of test. The longer you are on T though, the more inert your endogenous T production. If you tried T for a year and you just didn't like it, you could get off, kickstart your natural T production with either of those drugs, and likely largely be back to where you were. There's tradeoffs in everything to be sure, but even with side effects - some of which are marginal and some which could be deal breakers and all of which vary by person - the side effects of having low T levels are often worse for a lot of guys than the side effects that come with T.

Dr. Shopping is certainly a thing, and there is definitely a fair bit of potential for abuse, but two things I think are prevalent in the world of TRT is A) Doctors are incredibly limited by medical standards and those criteria set by the insurance industry (for example the fact that hypogonadism is defined by levels in the standards of care that treat a 35 year old the same as an 85 year old as far as their T levels are concerned) and B) Many Doctors are just not skookum with modern and new drug uses. As far as TRT is concerned, you will hear Doctors parrot perceptions from 20 years ago that have long since been debunked or at the very least are falsely avoiding levels of nuance we now understand. Urologists are kind of the keepers of TRT, because of the sexual and reproductive health side of things, but there is a lot of evidence the Testosterone is involved in way more than just those things.

 

[DFS]

Enclomiphene can really jack up estradiol for a lot of folks who try it, and even if it raises T, for some people it skews their E to T ratio in a bad way.

You will jack up estradiol with testosterone as well (it’s a feedback loop). At some point you will have to take an aromatase inhibitor. I’m not advocating for anything just providing my thoughts.

 

[Laelkhunter]

This thread is gonna be kinda personal for me it’s all about the struggles I’ve been having since around last may around my health. Going into this I finally just reached the point of always being exhausted and something has to be wrong. So I find myself sitting in a doctors office telling him that exact thing im just always tired. I’ve worked 20 hours straight for 10 plus days straight and that’s how I feel every day. For the longest time I just wrote it off as I work a lot I have kids life should be like this. As I’m telling the doctor all about my day and how this just doesn’t make sense anymore that I can’t ever seem to catch up he begins to tell my I must have depression. I’m far from depressed and it results in about a 5 min back and forth between him and I. Finally I get fairly frustrated and just flat tell him I’m not $*)Q!#@$ depressed I’m exhausted. So we agree to pull my blood work and see what going on. During that part of the conversation I ask to have my testosterone levels checked. He doesn’t want to do it and it results in another 5-10 min conversation and I finally kinda loose it an ask him are you paying for my blood work? No so run the tests I want done. A couple days go by and I get a message in the ap

I have read through this thread and feel I have similar symptoms. If I missed it I apologize, but could you advise your age? PM if you don't wish to post here, again sorry if I missed it in your previous posts.

 

[44hunter45]

Read the whole thread. My new avatar has never felt more appropriate.

Its been an interesting read. I too have the problem where I tell doctors I'm eating less than 2000 Cals a day with exercise and not losing weight. They pull out a BMI chart and tell me its a discipline issue.

Then they check my A1c and are always shocked I'm not diabetic.

I've never had a T test.

Given the family history of Alzheimer's, I would have a raging woody and not remember what it is for.

 

[JohnCushman]

I have read through this thread and feel I have similar symptoms. If I missed it I apologize, but could you advise your age? PM if you don't wish to post here, again sorry if I missed it in your previous posts.

53

 

[Laelkhunter]

53

20 years younger than me.

 

[Bonasababy]

Read the whole thread. My new avatar has never felt more appropriate.

Its been an interesting read. I too have the problem where I tell doctors I'm eating less than 2000 Cals a day with exercise and not losing weight. They pull out a BMI chart and tell me its a discipline issue.

Then they check my A1c and are always shocked I'm not diabetic.

I've never had a T test.

Given the family history of Alzheimer's, I would have a raging woody and not remember what it is for.

This is exactly the type of thing that has me suggesting another doctor is needed. And that's not doctor shopping--thats just getting someone to honestly LISTEN to you.

Can you get a referral to or go to a weight loss specialist? That's right in their wheelhouse, and as mentioned the GLP-1 drugs are a wonder for some people in your position. It takes attention to diet too but I'd guess you have no problem with that.

There are some side effects, which vary in presence and intensity in people.

 

[Treeshark]

I don’t mean to be insensitive, but the amount of bigger people who TELL a doctor that they are making healthy lifestyle choices is significantly higher than people who are actually doing it.

Adult men that are truly consuming less than 2000 quality calories a day, getting good sleep, and managing their stress well (each for a prolonged period of time) yet remain high BMI are extremely rare.

 

[Exhausted]

20 years younger than me.

I'm 39 and have been on TRT since 35.

 

[44hunter45]

I don’t mean to be insensitive, but the amount of bigger people who TELL a doctor that they are making healthy lifestyle choices is significantly higher than people who are actually doing it.

Adult men that are truly consuming less than 2000 quality calories a day, getting good sleep, and managing their stress well (each for a prolonged period of time) yet remain high BMI are extremely rare.

Let just cut to the chase. You are calling me a liar.
I'm fat and you're an asshole. At least I can diet.

 

[The_Jim]

Read the whole thread. My new avatar has never felt more appropriate.

Its been an interesting read. I too have the problem where I tell doctors I'm eating less than 2000 Cals a day with exercise and not losing weight. They pull out a BMI chart and tell me its a discipline issue.

Then they check my A1c and are always shocked I'm not diabetic.

I've never had a T test.

Given the family history of Alzheimer's, I would have a raging woody and not remember what it is for.

Your metabolism isn’t as simple as calories in calories out. Eventually your body will get used to that deficit and that becomes your maintenance calories. If you’re working out and only eating 2000 calories your body is going to reduce muscle.

 

[TOGIE]

Let just cut the chase. You are calling me a liar.
I'm fat and you're an asshole. At least I can diet.

no, i think he is pointing out that doctors are dealing with, that vast majority of the time, liars.

so, it's a little understandable why they're absolute assholes to the minority of folks that are being honest with them.

the doctors only source of objectivity is the chart. they should listen to the words, but i suspect most of them have been doing this long enough to know that the majority of the time the words are bullshit.

 

[cgasner1]

I have read through this thread and feel I have similar symptoms. If I missed it I apologize, but could you advise your age? PM if you don't wish to post here, again sorry if I missed it in your previous posts.

I’m 38

 

[cgasner1]

Let just cut to the chase. You are calling me a liar.
I'm fat and you're an asshole. At least I can diet.

But can you?? I’m just kidding

 

[RG300]

my 2 cents,
10 -12 years ago......I tested + for low T. Dr. said use this gel, as much as you want...... I used it as sparingly as i could. Several months later my right calf swelled up for no reason. I went to an urgent care, they said your going to the hospital emergency room right now, several hours later an ultrasound revealed a blood clot.....the dr there asked what meds i was on & when i mentioned the Testosterone Gel, she said , well you wont be taking that anymore......after a few weeks on a blood thinner the clot was no longer an issue,(had it found its way to my lungs, this would be a different story).....the swelling in my calf never went down, its still about 1/2 again as big as my other calf.

Be Careful.

 

[jryoung]

Read the whole thread. My new avatar has never felt more appropriate.

Its been an interesting read. I too have the problem where I tell doctors I'm eating less than 2000 Cals a day with exercise and not losing weight. They pull out a BMI chart and tell me its a discipline issue.

Then they check my A1c and are always shocked I'm not diabetic.

I've never had a T test.

Given the family history of Alzheimer's, I would have a raging woody and not remember what it is for.

Have you done a Vo2Max test and gotten your AMR/RMR? We use a company called PNOE providing both an AMR and RMR.

Find Locations here https://locator.pnoe.com/?utm_source=b2c_banner

Our patients consistently tell us the macro summary in the RMR (pages 14-16 in the attached document) have done more for their diet than anything else they have tried because it's customized based on their metabolism. Doesn't look like there are many locations in Idaho for PNOE, but there are other Vo2Max devices too. If you're ever in the San Jose area I'd be happy to provide the test at the Hunt Talk rate using promo code RANDY.

(scan is a little wonky from compression, but all the info is there)

 

[Bonasababy]

I don’t mean to be insensitive, but the amount of bigger people who TELL a doctor that they are making healthy lifestyle choices is significantly higher than people who are actually doing it.

Adult men that are truly consuming less than 2000 quality calories a day, getting good sleep, and managing their stress well (each for a prolonged period of time) yet remain high BMI are extremely rare.

Based on what evidence? People often don't take care, but when they eventually get going on it and do, they find themselves unable to lose the weight that popular opinion folks (perhaps you?) suggest they will, even doing everything right. Individual metabolisms vary widely. And they change with age.

I used to eat frozen pizzas, mac and cheese, hamburger helper and other not so good for me stuff--and a lot of it--when I was a poor college and graduate student. Didn't pack on the pounds. If I do that today it's a totally different story! Likewise a summer diet would always help me lose 20-30 pounds and keep me in reasonable shape. That too changed.

This is why I tell people to ignore the internet expurts and see a weight loss doctor.