Swift Boat Group Leader Exposed as Fraud

[JoseCuervo]

Kinda funny to watch the GOP funded group be exposed as frauds......

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON Aug. 19, 2004 — A Vietnam veteran who claims Sen. John Kerry lied about being under fire during a Mekong Delta engagement that won Kerry a Bronze Star was under constant fire himself during the same skirmish, according to the man's own medal citation, a newspaper reported.

The newly obtained records of Larry Thurlow show that he, like Kerry, won a Bronze Star in the engagement and that Thurlow's citation said he also was under attack, The Washington Post reported Thursday.

Thurlow, also like Kerry, commanded a Navy Swift boat during the Vietnam War. Thurlow swore in an affidavit last month that Kerry was "not under fire" when he rescued Lt. James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River.

Thurlow's records, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of Information Act, include references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at all five boats in the flotilla that day. In his Bronze Star citation, Thurlow is praised for helping a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

The records said Thurlow's actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire," which Thurlow ignored in providing immediate assistance to the disabled boat and its crew.

Thurlow is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans who have aired a television advertisement attacking Kerry's war record.

Kerry has described how his boat came under fire from the river banks after a mine explosion disabled another U.S. Swift boat. Kerry and members of his crew say the firing continued as Kerry leaned over to fish out Rassmann, who was blown overboard in another explosion.

Thurlow described Kerry's Bronze Star citation as "totally fabricated," saying "I never heard a shot."

Thurlow, a registered Republican, said he was angry with Kerry for his anti-war activities after his return to the United States, especially his claim that U.S. troops committed war crimes with the knowledge of their officers up the chain of command.

Thurlow told the Post that he got the award for helping to rescue the boat that was mined.

"This casts doubt on anybody's awards," he said. "It is sickening and disgusting."

He said he believed his own award would be "fraudulent" if it was based on coming under enemy fire.

"We weren't under fire," he insisted, speculating that Kerry could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation.

Thurlow said he lost his Bronze Star citation more than 20 years ago. He said he would not authorize release of his military records because he feared the Kerry campaign would discredit him.

Members of Kerry's crew have said Kerry is telling the truth. Rassmann said he has vivid memories of enemies firing at him from both banks.

 

[Nemont]

President Bush should just denounce the swifties and then move one. Kerry's advisers should tell him to quit giving new life to the Vietnam issue at every stop.

Why are we rehashing what happened 36 year ago? It must have the Kerry camp concerned if they have to so forcefully respond.

Same goes for President Bush's Nat'l guard records and service.

Did you see how the majority of veterans treated Kerry? I think there is some lingering dislike of Kerry's actions post Vietnam.

Nemont

 

[wyomingtim]

From what I understood, they just used the same account for everyone that was involved in that "incident" who got a citation for it. Also, why is it that the media uses the freedom of info act to get his records, but no one seems able to get Kerry's records. Heck, Linda Tripp sure had her files turned over when she revealed that Klinton was getting hummed by an intern.

 

[Nemont]

There are always two versions of every story. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow
Author:
Dated: Thursday, August 19 2004 @ 09:00 AM PDT
Viewed: 44487 times
For Immediate Release
Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow

I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates -- there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.

It was not until I had left the Navy -- approximately three months after I left the service -- that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several minutes later -- under no hail of enemy gunfire -- to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.

Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident -- the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three -- a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire.

And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.

These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?

Nemont

 

[whitedeer]

It's more fun to see Kerry campaign officials scurry on to the next cover up lie!

 

[MarlandS]

Nemont, why should Bush denounce the Swifties?

 

[Michaelr]

Kinda funny to watch the GOP funded group be exposed as frauds

That is a lie. I think I will sue you

Check this out.

17. Are you working or involved in any way with the Bush/Cheney campaign or any other Republican organization?

Absolutely not. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is a non-partisan organization. As part of our mission, we believe it is incumbent on ALL presidential candidates to be totally honest and forthcoming regarding personal background and policy information that would help the voting public make an informed decision when choosing the next president of the United States.

The organization was created, organized and funded by swift boat veterans who joined together to defend a common cause. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accepts donations from individuals and groups as a 527 organization.

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php?topic=FAQ

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Yeah, I know - you'd think people would check out the stuff they get before posting on here.

 

[Nemont]

Mars,
Because it is an issue that could come back and haunt the President. Maybe denounce is to strong of a word maybe distance himself from. What matters more then Kerry's Vietnam service is his extemely liberal senate record.

I think the dems know that they can't trot that out to the middle roaders and Kerry must appear strong on defense but whatever happened 36 years ago is not as important.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

"......One of his most vocal critics, Larry Thurlow, has disputed Kerry's Bronze Star-winning assertion that he came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory. But Thurlow's own military records contained several references to small arms fire that day, according to The Washington Post......"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040820/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war&cid=694&ncid=716

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey Michael and Cali,

Who funded the $100k and the $400k that bought all the Swifties advertising????

Nemont,
You are right, Dubya should denounce the group, as this is making him look bad. MoveOn had the ad about Dubya using connections to avoid the draft, and then not showing up for service, and McCain called on Kerry to denounce it, and Kerry was a big enough man to do it.

McCain has called on Dubya to denounce the lies of the Swifties, and Dubya is too stupid to do it, at great political cost. As the Swifties are exposed for what they are, and Dubya has even said Kerry's service in Viet Nam was "Honorable", Dubya looks bad for not denouncing it.

Question for all the ex-Military: Thurlow claims to have not known why Thurlow was awarded a Bronze Star, and never bothered to check the details of his own Citation. But he is concerned with Kerry's. Is that realistic that Thurlow would not know why he was awarded a medal?

 

[JoseCuervo]

 

[JoseCuervo]

 

[Calif. Hunter]

What do you call someone who calls someone else a liar, and is lying himself?

 

[MarlandS]

Originally posted by Nemont:
Mars,
Because it is an issue that could come back and haunt the President. Maybe denounce is to strong of a word maybe distance himself from. What matters more then Kerry's Vietnam service is his extemely liberal senate record.

Nemont

I'm not connecting the dots on how it could come back and bite him, Kerry's stories keep changing yet the Vets story has remained the same.

Besides, that's exactly what the Kerry supporters are calling for, Bush to denounce the vets , why is that?

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Question for all the ex-Military: Thurlow claims to have not known why Thurlow was awarded a Bronze Star, and never bothered to check the details of his own Citation. But he is concerned with Kerry's. Is that realistic that Thurlow would not know why he was awarded a medal?


Sure - didn't you read the part of the post above where Thurlow says he was notified after he got out of the service that he was getting the medal? He may not have seen the submission made on his behalf.

It was not until I had left the Navy -- approximately three months after I left the service -- that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

 

[wyomingtim]

I just think it is funny that a Republican supporter helps spend $150,000 for a little ad on TV in a select few locations and the Pres is being crucified for it. Menawhile Michael Moore spends gobs to make a "documentary" (I still have problems with that title) and it is a great theatric production, and Soros spends untold millions and it is all OK and there is nothing wrong with it. It is amazing that $150,000 can cause this much of a reaction from teh libs. There must be some truth to the matter, or why else react this way?

I also love how military experience is only a factor in the election when it may benefit the dems. Remember? Military service didn't matter with Bush #1 and Klinton and it didn't matter again with Dole and Klinton. You gotta love the media and the libs. Good to know someone is letting us all know what is important for a presidential candidate. I don't think I would know otherwise.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"What do you call someone who calls someone else a liar, and is lying himself? "


Elkgunner , Ithaca or John Kerry.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"......One of his most vocal critics, Larry Thurlow, has disputed Kerry's Bronze Star-winning assertion that he came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory. But Thurlow's own military records contained several references to small arms fire that day, according to The Washington Post......"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040820/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war&cid=694&ncid=716


The rest of that said,

"Thurlow said in a statement Thursday that his records were based on Kerry's account. "

 

[Ithaca 37]

[ 08-20-2004, 09:34: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]